Shooting first – and hitting the people they came to protect
“I saw it fall down by itself, and after hitting the ground it exploded,” said Mohammed Braik, the farmer in whose field the American F15 Strike Eagle came down. “It caught fire but there was no shooting.”
By the time we arrived this morning, people were climbing all over the wreckage – there’s a perilous disregard for basic safety here, which means that rebel fighetrs constantly shoot in the air, and no-one thinks twice about prodding and poking an unexploded rocket from a crashed warplane.
The people told us that they realised early on that this was an American plane and therefore, as they see it, on their side. It seems to have malfunctioned, so the pilots ejected. A group of officers who have gone over to the rebel side took charge.
“After the plane crashed, we moved to the site. We searched for the pilots, and found the parachutes and ejection seats,” said Colonel Omar Sayid, of the Military Police. Then they found one of the pilots.I wonder what that pilot thought was going on. A US pilot ejecting during such a mission would be prepared for anyone they encounter to be hostile. Yet I suspect that a mob descended on him shouting: “Welcome, welcome Libya“, because that’s always the first phrase you hear in the rebel-held east.
Pilot number one, who was scarcely injured, was taken to the military authorities in Benghazi from where he was quickly handed over to the Americans. But a rescue mission was mounted for pilot number two, and this is where what could have been comic turned sour. Osprey aircraft came in, all guns blazing, assuming – as the American military tends to do – that this was hostile territory.
“We are disturbed about the shooting because if they’d given us a chance we would have handed over both pilots,” said Colonel Sayid. “This shooting created panic.”
Worse than that, several bystanders were injured, amongst them 43-year-old Hamad Abdul Ati. We found him in Jala hospital in Benghazi, with multiple shrapnel and bullet wounds, and a broken arm. He didn’t understand why the Americans had been so aggressive in their rescue mission.
“We consider that whoever is shot down or a prisoner of war, we should save him and hand him over,” he told me from his hospital bed. “But another plane shot at me and Hamdy my son. I have shrapnel in my hand.”
Hospital staff told us that 20-year-old Hamdy’s injuries were far worse, and he was undergoing an operation to amputate part of one leg.
Yet Hamad told me he wasn’t angry, just puzzled.
“The whole eastern area is under the revolution, it’s well known. Why did this happen? My car is destroyed, my home is damaged,” he said, adding: “We would have just picked the second pilot up and put him wherever he wanted in a safe place. Even the other one, we had a celebration for him.”
That’s what’s heart-breaking about the incident. The villagers did indeed shout: “Welcome, welcome Libya” and try to offer hospitality and gratitude to their American friends.
But because the American military works on the assumption that anyone around could be hostile, it may be why it all went horribly wrong. Which is how the US airforce ended up injuring some of the Libyan civilians it’s supposedly here to save.
There are 48 comments on this post
The american soldiers probably never heard of Libya. Or who is fighting who. How can they be scared of anything flying an Osprey?
Oh well, its only civilians, who cares?
War is stupid and useless.
All weapons factories should start recycling their tools into agricultural implements.
Unfortunately your wisdom is too sensible for humankind
Keep your anti-American bias to yourself and report the news, please. If it actually happened, then it was because they rushed the aircraft. Regrettable, but not as regrettable as Black Hawk Down II would be.
It happened because Americans think anyone in an Arab country must be a subhuman enemy. They have been poisoned by Neocon anti Islamic rhetoric.
Have you proof they rushed the aircraft?
If not then your comments are just stupid.
Unfortunately the US Military are well known for these kind of stuff ups
“Not” – There is no point in attempting to converse with people who begin by assuming the worst, and then back it up with personal insults. No one was killed, and it is unfortunate if people were injured unnecessarily. I wasn’t there, so I don’t know. Last I heard we were on the same team, but you wouldn’t know that from reading most of these comments.
Agreed with NOT – its certainly regrettable but let’s not be too hasty in forgetting what happened in Mogadishu. Also what happened in Gulf 1 . Please present the facts evenly, taking into account the past. Waaaay too easy to get views on a news story by presenting a leftist stance.
They had a saying during WW2: When the Germans shoot, we duck. When we shoot, the Germans duck. When the Americans shoot, everyone ducks.
WOW
Stretch out a welcoming hand and get your leg blown off.
Another prime example of how to win freinds NOT
Its been known for a long time now that the american armed forces always always always shoot first and ask questions later. No restraint, humanity trained out of them and extremely poorly educated. In every conflict they have been in they have always shot their own side. The UK armed forces in WW2 were actually ordered to shoot at american planes in Italy because their commanders were sick of being attacked by them. In Iraq, British forces actually reported being more nervous of the americans than of the Iraqis due to their habit of shooting anything that moves.
They even shot at a British Helicopter, which turned around, landed and the pilot got out. He identified the solider who had shot at him, and then proceeded to give him a good kicking, saying ‘How many helicopters do the Iraqis have?’ The american forces demanded an apology for the incident, to which the Royal Air Force replied, ‘I’m afraid that’s the way the RAF deals with things. We don’t suffer fools easily’
Stupid Americans… It is with that kind of behaviour they manage to get everyone against them.
“Walk a mile” in the soldiers shoes, before you make another useless comment. Why would anyone with any common sense run up on a heavily armed group -especially in a time of military conflict?? I am certain the Brits would have done the same.
Gerry Boy – American soldiers certainly are aware of Where and What is. As usual Europe lets America clean the mess.
I agree with the statement “American soldiers tend to assume hostile territory”, in fact, change “tend to” for “always” and add to that the state of mind of these soldiers who are so used to violating human rights with impunity during war, too much for “helping” in the coalition.
Anyone know how many SAS,Delta Force,Foreign Legion etc are on the ground in Eastern Libya?
Btw you are doing a great job Lindsey!
The situation is regrettable, but one thing you have to keep in mind is that our pilots perform at the level that they do because they know the US military will move mountains to rescue them if they are ever shot down. Our search and rescue guys are the absolute best in the business, which in turn gives our pilots confidence that if they ever find themselves ejecting from their aircraft, the cavalry won’t be too far behind.
Now, the location at which the aircraft crashed isn’t exactly a long ways from enemy lines. So, what exactly do you expect the search and rescue team to do when they arrive on the scene and see a mob of people, probably armed with AK’s, rushing towards the downed pilot? You think they’re going to land and go over and try to sort the situation out? Of course not. Their only mission is to rescue the pilot.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s unfortunate that this situation played out the way it did. And the fact that the rebels tried to help is commendable. But let’s not make this into more than it actually is, and don’t try to paint the US forces in a bad light because they were intent on rescuing their downed pilot.
Bleeding hearts will condemn America for this but America is good enough to keep us safe and any other country that needs help.At this point American soldiers did not care about anyone but the soldier they were looking for. Everyone else was considered a threat. And im sure they rushed the plane or helicopter so they sent warning shots. If it was shots to kill they all would have been dead and not just shrapnel wounds..Put yourself in there shoes.
It was very fortunate the 2 airmen weren’t captured by pro-Gaddafi forces. We would then have had a real hostage saga developing.
It amazes me that the civilians are so forgiving.
Osprey aircraft are not equipped to mount weapons which brings into serious question the veracity of this story. However, a transport aircraft in a combat zone would undoubtedly have an armed escort so it’s possible that an escort helicopter shot at some people; except the types of weapons gunships carry are unlikely to injure 6 people and leave them alive.
Why not? Americans or whoever are not automatically the good guys
After two 500lb bombs were dropped moments earlier, I seriously doubt they “rushed the aircraft”. This is the trigger happy Yanks doing what they do best – alienating the general population and losing wars.
“Osprey aircraft came in, all guns blazing, assuming – as the American military tends to do – that this was hostile territory.”
Latest reports seem to suggest that the Osprey was unarmed, and in fact the pilot himself requested two Harriers to drop a bomb to scare the crowd off. Admittedly, still stupid, but this bit of hyperbole of the US rushing in ‘all guns blazing’ is unhelpful and unnecessary.
Osprey aircraft came in, all guns blazing, assuming – as the American military tends to do – that this was hostile territory.
Military intelligence has a very good idea what’s hostile territory and what not. Also I can guarantee you command takes ‘hearts & minds’ warfare very seriously and would not authorize indiscriminate shooting of civilians. So either there was an action or provocation which put the pilot’s or the V-2 crew’s life at risk or something went very wrong.
How about, “Not”, you get rid of your pro-American bias. This is typical US military behavior. Soldiers and Marines are taught to shoot first and never ask questions. At least I was when I was a soldier. A blithering idiot knows that Libya is not Somalia, especially not the eastern area near Benghazi which is welcoming the intervention. Black Hawk Down II was not even a remote possibility. Do you have any clue how hard it is to move towards a helicopter in sand? Or how obvious it is that people who are moving at you are not hostile? The Osprey likely wasn’t rushed, surely wasn’t under threat, but US military personnel are not trained to think, they’re trained to be aggressive and shoot. And this is the result.
Well if they are trained to be killers, just don’t make ANY WAR! Other armies are trained to think, let them help liberation fighters. Lybians don’t need killers, they need men.
An Osprey goes into attack mode over rebel – presumably friendly – territory and targets some locals. It’s time to come home if this is the best we’ve got.
What is the maximum allowed “collateral damage” ratio in the US army? Can US kill 100 Libyan/Paki/Afgani/Iraqi peasants is they are suspected to be hostile against US civilian-protecting brave pilots? Or maximum allowed is e.g. 50 and above 50 they can face official an investigation?
This is stupidity, i hope these military are going to be put into trial, they are killers, and killers of hope, they are going to ruin all the efforts of the world community. If americans can’t understand what they are fighting for, just DON’T fight, and let more clever people use arms.
I can’t say if this was stupidity (screwed-up Rules of Engagement (iron-clad procedures) or pilot error (failure to follow the ROE). Either is tragically stupid but the former is more serious.
Did you actually witness the attack Ms Hilsum?
They should release any footage from inside the Osprey with audio so we can have a clearer picture of what happened. The gung-ho hypermacho attitude of my country embarasses me.
“Worse than that, several bystanders were injured, amongst them 43-year-old Hamad Abdul Ati. We found him in Jala hospital in Benghazi, with multiple shrapnel and bullet wounds, and a broken arm.”
Shrapnel? V-22s are armed with .30 cal machine guns. Where did the shrapnel come from? Obviously, we’re not getting the whole story.
“But a rescue mission was mounted for pilot number two, and this is where what could have been comic turned sour. Osprey aircraft came in, all guns blazing, assuming – as the American military tends to do – that this was hostile territory.”
Well, #1 – ALL CSAR operators assume that, regardless of nationality – and many have been trained to do so by the SAS. #2 – There’s no proof of the incident occurring as reported, other than what witnesses claimed – the same witnesses filmed poking around downed aircraft carrying live ordnance and flammable fluids. So how can you claim with such certainty this was all the Americans’ fault?
“The American military works on the assumption that anyone around could be hostile…(And this) is how the US airforce ended up injuring some of the Libyan civilians it’s supposedly here to save.”
Oh. That…
“Shrapnel? V-22s are armed with .30 cal machine guns. Where did the shrapnel come from? Obviously, we’re not getting the whole story.”
I think you’ll find that bullets can cause shrapnel. Shrapnel is just random bits of flying debris that interfaces with a person. In this case a civilian.
That debris can come from all sorts of places once you start shooting at people.
I think the story is simply another case of US soldiers firing first because they haven’t engaged their brains.
Mr. Hawkins – Thank you for your reply. I respectfully disagree. I think you’ll find that the exact opposite was true, that the shrapnel was caused by a bomb dropped between the approaching crowd of unknown intent and the downed pilot as a warning, that the Marines (not soldiers) and airmen knew exactly what they were doing and showed admirable restraint – much more restraint than the reporter did in presenting allegations as “facts”.
This so-called “incident” was much ado about nothing.
we cant run the world. thats what the political people want. its like a big board game to them.
its a shame that my children have to live in this sorry world.
AND yes i am a combat veteran. i disagree with a few of the statements i see here, i dont remember alot of bad apples that shot at people that werent targets of opportunity. oh well china is gonna want some of the trillions of dollars we owe then, hold on to your #$@when that happens
There is now a video circulating in the news of an interview with the injured man in the article. Of course he would probably have desired not to have been injured, but he cearly says that he is very happy for the actions of the coallition, and says it is a smal price to pay to get rid of 40 years of brutal dictarship.
But I guess everyone who is against the intervention knows better than the man himself?
Of course it seems extremely stupid and wreckless of the US soldiers that injured those people, but that doesnät change the fact that the local Libyans in Benghazi feel the coalitons bombardments just have saved them froma true massacre by Ghaddafi. Are you telling them, the opposition in Libya, that because of your personal political view you would rather have thembrutally murdered by Ghaddafis forces than have the Un intervene? Because that is what you are implying. Just pause and think about that for a moment or two.
Just because US and the west has made mistakes before is not a reason to not help people in dire need of a military intervention today. If Hitler would have killed only German jews, would that be an internal matter not for anyone other nation to…
Umm…Ospreys don’t go anywhere “guns blazing”. We only have five that even have an external weapon, and that is usually left behind because it takes up 10% of the weight allowance. In general, they only have a rear facing machine gun mounted on the ramp.
Considering the Ospreys used in this rescue were being escorted by jets, it is unlikely they would have bothered mounting the belly guns, even if they had them.
I am shocked too, but when I read all the comments I felt for Americans who might be reading them. The pilot has been brought up in a huge landmass of a country and it isn’t likely that he ever would have had a passport or travelled to another country; probably has never met a muslim, and more than likely has been brought up to believe that all muslims are radical extremists and terrorists, and just the same as the people who caused 9/11. What percentage of US movies is there, where the way to resolve a conflict is NOT through violence, and the dramatic climax is not with the hero “winning” a violent and bloody gunfight? It’s the culture. US citizens are constantly using, “un-American” as a term of abuse. But at the same time, the pilot must have been in shock after the crash landing and very frightened. You’d have to change the whole culture and mindset of the US if you wanted to reduce the number of so-called “friendly fire” incidents caused by the US to be on a parr with other countries, other cultures.
Actually, Ro, there are more muslims in the US than in the UK, although they are a smaller percentage of the population. On my street of about 40 homes, about a dozen belong to people who were born in another country, including three Iranian, three Indian, one each Canadian, Jordanian, Cambodian, Greek, Pakistani, Chinese, and Vietnamese. I could only guess their religion because most most of us don’t care about that. As for the guns and passports, I agree with you – mostly. Until a few years ago we could travel most of the Americas on just a driver’s license. No need to have a passport to find warm beaches or fine skiing or beautiful parks. Still that way. I’ve been to the UK 25 times and have spent days admiring your architecture and visiting your fabulous museums. I’d visit more often, but it takes me 18 hours to get to London, with transfers. I’m the one you can’t pick out as an American because I’m not loud and I don’t weigh 20 stone. Come over and meet a few of us, rather than listening to generalizations, and you might have a more favorable opinion. Or maybe not.
“…because the American military works on the assumption that anyone around could be hostile…” Doesn’t every military work on that assumption in a war zone?
Since I wasn’t there and haven’t heard all sides of the story, I am not willing to condemn at this point. My prayers are with the injured for a speedy recovery, peace and freedom!
Bravo Lindsey!!!!
Hope that you are ok!
According to the article “Osprey aircraft came in, all guns blazing, assuming – as the American military tends to do – that this was hostile territory.” Actually, Osprey carry very light weapons, which were not fired. Another aircraft dropped two small bombs between the crowd and the pilot to keep the crowd from advancing. Why? I don’t know. Unfortunately, shrapnel hit some people. Perhaps the pilot felt threatened, perhaps the other air crew thought he was threatened, perhaps he was threatened. I wasn’t there and I don’t know. We can be sure that had this been a British pilot, and US rescue crews had failed to protect him/her from a crowd that was indeed hostile, the tone of the article and the comments would be somewhat different.
From the NY Times-
Extract from NY Times –
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/23/world/africa/23plane.html?hp
A Marine Corps officer said that the grounded pilot, who was in contact with rescue crews in the air, asked for bombs to be dropped as a precaution before the crews landed to pick him up. “My understanding is he asked for the ordnance to be delivered between where he was located and where he saw people coming toward him,” the officer said, adding that the pilot evidently made the request “to keep what he thought was a force closing in on him from closing in on him.”
In response, two Harrier attack jets that were part of the rescue team dropped two 500-pound bombs before a Marine Osprey helicopter landed to pick up the pilot, at about 1:30 a.m. Tuesday local time. The Marine officer said he did not know if the people approaching the pilot were friendly or hostile or what damage the bombs had caused.
Channel 4 News in Britain reported that six villagers were shot by American troops in rescuing one of the two airmen. None of the villagers — who were interviewed by a reporter in a nearby hospital — were killed, although .
The end of paragraph 4 is all the allegory you need to explain the American reaction here (given that even the majority of this is correct and factual) – both things, the end of the paragraph and the American ‘tactics’ are a complete mess.
Have the Americans ever got anything right?
Vietnam? Iraq? Afghanistan? Pakistan? Yemen?
America has become the country the world loves to hate.
Congratulations America! Keep up the Good Work!
A swift apology by the U.S. and offer of medical help would have defused this situation instantly – as it seems it was a genuine misunderstanding. I am not holding my breath however.