Hi there. Women on Channel 4 - that is the mammoth topic we are dipping our toes into this Saturday. Does C4 get it right? Does it engage women with the entertainment and issues that women want? Does it put the right women on air? Does it offer empowering inspiring television, or do you sometimes wonder if it’s all basically about titillation?
Given that the five most powerful people at Channel 4 are men (and dare I suggest it - white, middle class ones to boot) does it show on air? And while Selina Scott sues Five for allegedly discriminating against older women, where are all the older women on Channel 4…?
Our starting point is the recent G-Spot season of documentaries. Channel 4 described it as: “a new female-led documentary strand of intelligent and provocative films investigating a range of topical issues that impact on how women live now.” And what were those issues? Prostitution, vaginal cosmetic surgery, facial cosmetic surgery, wearing fur and, still to come, women who breast feed other people’s children. Those are, apparently, the women’s issues Channel 4 felt needed investigation in 2008.
Did you see them? Lots of my friends ended up being pleasantly surprised at the programmes’ intelligence. But some I’ve spoken to thought titles like The Perfect Vagina were too ‘Channel Five’ and they switched off. And is there any truth in the suggestion that any men watching were really just there in the vain hope that the presenter Lisa Rogers (who was once a scantily clad pin-up for lads mags) would eventually get her bits out?
But there are bigger questions too. Think about the images of women Channel 4 projects. Programmes about looking 10 Years Younger. Gok Wan can claim to be a positive and empowering force – but doesn’t How To Look Good Naked still basically tell women how to improve the way they look? And aren’t the models on Gok’s Fashion Fix still essentially thin and pretty? Strong women certainly feature on Dangerous Jobs for Girls, and arguably having Charlotte Church host C4’s Friday night youth entertainment show is a good thing. If I were to put my daughter in front of Channel 4 in the hope she would get great ideas about being a successful, confident and happy woman when she’s big, would my hopes be dashed?
Of course there are always people who argue it was better in the old days. When a woman - Liz Forgan - was director of programmes, when Carol Vorderman was the highest paid person at Channel 4, when The Tube was presented by Paula Yates and C4’s programme about TV - The Media Show - was presented by Muriel Gray. But then, remember the Red Triangle? And was Paula really any different to Dani Behr, Amanda De Cadenet or even Charlotte Church?
There is a rich seam here - and we’ll only scratch the surface on the show - but perhaps the website is a better place to have a more in-depth discussion….?
Finally, in response to some great viewer feedback on the latest series of C4’s The Secret Millionaire (incidentally, a series which recently profiled an extremely positive female role model), we’ll be hosting a live Q&A session with the programme makers during this Saturday’s show. Read this blog post to find out more.
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I’ve just watched the first episode of When Women Rule The World, and unfortunately I wasn’t at all surprised by the outmoded gender stereotypes that the programme supported. As if the premise of the show was not bad enough — only on a fantasy island community could we have something as unreal as women in a position of power in society — we were also saw the ‘queen’ of this island agreeing that women are primarily emotional whereas men are rational and logical.
Much as I love a lot of the programmes Channel 4 offers, none of this surprised me. This is the channel which showed us Beauty and the Geek, in which the patent message was beautiful woman = stupid, vacuous bimbo, who can be paired up with an intelligent man to try and learn something. The fact that you could have an amazing looking woman who is also amazingly intelligent was not even entertained which, for me, is not very entertaining.
I am a comedy producer and continue to be dismayed by the fact that television producers choose Big Brother houseguests or a pop stars instead of smart, intelligent female comics for endless panel shows or presenting roles. How do we get more funny women onto these programmes?
When women ruled the world is a lame show with an awful premise dressed up with a poor orwellian excuse of ‘This is a social experiment’.
If we want a more equal world then men have to play their part in a women’s world as partners and not just distant workers and commuters who are expected to get the best jobs and roles.
A more women friendly world will require men standing up for the families they create, demanding paternity leave, greater time at home and an end to the macho culture of modern work. It’s time to stop a ‘work long, work hard’ world and try to work smarter. The work/life balance needs to be altered so that men and women are not always asked to choose between career and family.
This is an important question that each and every one of us should be asking ourselves. A show like ‘When women ruled the world’ does not add to this conversation, it detracts from it. We cannot have it all, we must share.
On a separate note C4 needs to ask what it really wants to be? Wholly commercial or a public service broadcaster.
Maybe the time has come for C4 to be privatised allowing it to pursue continued success in the commercial market. The public service remit could be given to a new organisation that is prepared to pursue a more diverse agenda. This series of programs has included some real flops, WI guide to Brothels? I shall not soon forgot the exasperation and shock of the Ladies in the WI when that van appeared at the end of program.
I enjoy watching Hollyoaks for the controversial topics. But why are there no bigger size girls, Cloe a fantastic character from a few years ago was a really nice breath of fresh air to show that big girls are beautiful and can do the same things as the skinny ones. Why cant channel 4 find somre more ‘realistic’ women. Bigger sizes or intelligent!
Having just watched the first TV Show I’d like to make a couple of points…
Over the past 10 years we have seen several programmes that degrade and humiliate men. We’ve had ‘Gods Gift’ where men had to parade in front of an audience of women and be voted on. We had ‘Man O Man’ where on a saturday Tea-time (when kids are watching) an audience of screaming women sang along to ‘I’m Horny’ while men had to perform tasks, including stripping, before being chucked in a pool of water when they were voted off. ‘Bring Your Husband to Heel’ where men were treated like dogs by their wives and told thats how men should be trained. And now Channel 4 has ‘When women rule the World’. Would these programmes be made about women? Of course not! So why are men fair game? Women spent years and quite rightly complained when they were not treated right but ‘male bashing’ is NOT the way forward. As a previous message said we should be working together. Empowering women should not be done by pushing men down. How do you think young boys feel watching shows like this and seeing how women treat them? Equality means do to others as you would do to yourself. Would these channels do to women what they do to men? When are people in the media going to stop ‘male bashing’ in order to empower women? Do women out there actually believe the only way to promote women is to humiliate men?
My second point is that I agree with one of the ladies on the TV Show this saturday… so much in the media is for women. What everyone must surely see is that sexism has not stopped, we havent moved forward. We have simply turned male chauvenism in to female chauvenism. We need to get a balance!
Breast feeding.
The issue regarding breast feeding is such a minority issue towards it’s own right for the duration of the breast feeding period. I would like to see further promotions in this area regarding public feeding of a child. both my daughters were breast fed. However the stigma that carried was very difficult to feed in public. I would like to see shopping centres to promote one day per week for those beleaving in breast feeding to have freedom to go topless while doing there shopping. Many shopping centres are under cover now. And can be made quite comfortable. This would be the only way for the right of parents to relax in public and the rights of the child to be fed rather than being forced into a feeding room ajoining public toilets which is absolutly discusting.
Re; The perfect Vagina
I watched the program - thought it was really good - informative and a refreshingly new genre - with Lisa Rogers doing a great job.
Your comment that any men watching it were just hoping that Lisa Rogers would ‘get her bits out’ is purile and childish and even the phraseology used there ,shows that you at channel 4 are not quite as mature about sexual matters ( especially when womens bodies are involved ) as you pretend to convey.
Many men are interested in vaginas believe it or not ! , and about how women feel about that normally ’secretive’ part of their bodies. How are we supposed to understand them if programs like this ARENT shown?It was interesting though that virtually no actual vaginas were shown,whereas in a long-prior program ‘ The perfect Penis’ must have shown at least 20 if not more, very close-up shots ,plus also felt quite free to almost ridicule,and poke fun at men ( ie the usual boring size issue etc) thru the course of said program with absolutely no regard for any affect on male viewers feelings.
Vaginas are virtually NEVER shown on TV yet the penis is regularly shown, too much in fact if you feel unable to balance that by showing vaginas also.Often even before 9pm -ie Embarrasing illnesses shown right at start of show 8pm and often more than one on each show. The ACTUAL list is endless through the course of the year, go do a check yourselves and you will see ,which proves a massive imbalance.
Even trash TV like ‘Richard & Judy’ has Judy moaning about Italian TV with girls in bikinis, yet then she almost cant contain herself when they have the slimming guys performing ‘the full monty’ (yawn , creatively LAZY - how much longer does that have to be used however tenuous the reason) at teatime , and yes at least one did get fully naked (with a young boy at front of audience). Would you have had women stripping with a young girl there?. . I think not.
It is almost as if there is a hidden agenda that having endless jokes,references to ,and showing of male genitalia is being used almost as a form of trying to disempower men ,rather than to be open and mature about the human body, since female genitals would be discussed and shown equally if that was the case .And that has patently NOT been the case to date , but hopefully this latest seemingly more mature aspect of your programs will mark a move to more balanced views in this area.
Channel 4 is undoubtedy innovative in its approach to current topical issues. Channel 4 appear to be mainly exploring concerns and issues that women are experiencing today as a result of the damaging influences they are bombarded with from the mass Media. They are merely reflecting what our culture is about today, as sad as that may seem.
Instead of focussing on giving confidence to women by changing them ( 10 years younger), it would be refreshing to see channel 4 invest time in changing public perception and actually challenge why women have low self esteem.
Leanne Mundy
“Steve” has hit the nail on the head with his post about the anti-man programmes that infest television .
Society is currently based around the “needs” of women . Politicians are constantly chasing womens votes ,while ignoring men . TV both degrades and demonises men , and anti-male divorce laws speak for themselves . Men are second class citizens ,and some are getting fed up with it .
Any chance of Channel 4 having a programme about how men are portrayed ?
Silly question really !
I thought ‘when women ruled the world” was an absolute disgrace! The way the men were treated was appalling. I found it all sexist, degrading and totally unacceptable.
Actually, I found it quite upsetting as well - how a person can treat another human being like that was shocking. These women were clearly getting a kick out of being abusive towards these men. Constant shouting, insults, jibes and nagging and if the men complained they got the threat of “punishment”. Sick behavour!
Also, rather dubious treatment of a black man that was borderline racist.
C4 wouldn’t dare produce a programme where women are abused by men like this so why is it ok for them to do it to men?
It’s just sick TV for sick people.
It is a shame really because it could have potentially been a good show. I have worked for many female managers in the past and they have all been good - giving good instructions, being supportive, caring and helpful.
This program could have shown just how good female leaders can be and how if men and women work together in harmony and respect then they can achieve great things.
Sadly, a wasted opportunity C4!
TV personalities need to stand up and say enough is enough. Men like Krishnan should say how wrong it is that women are always catered for and that men should be treated fairly on tv. But will famous men do this? Do they fear the backlash from women if they do? Do these men care about the young men growing up today and seeing this negative view of men on tv? We can complain and say how wrong it is as much as we like but unless men in the media or spotlight help other men/boys by standing up to this ‘female chauvenism’ then nobody seems to care.
Boys are not doing as well as girls in schools.. is it any wonder when the western society seems to be all about ‘what women want’ and pushing mens confidence and pride down with programmes such as ‘when women ruled the world’.
Come on Krishnan.. come on all those guys in the public spotlight, media and sport.. Stand up and help us!
| also know a lot of women who think its wrong too. I read an article about a feminist who is against radical feminism and thinks that men are being treated unfairly. Ann Widdecombe has also highlighted the plight of men today and how we are treated.
To give an example of how ‘chauvenism’ has changed from being male to female chauvenism… The business I’m in I help women’s businesses and organisations by promoting them and doing work for women’s charities such as Breast Cancer etc. When Ive spoke about supporting women and women’s rights I’ve been told how good I am and how good it is to see a man fight for women’s rights. But…. when I then also said, lets talk about men’s rights… I was moaned at and more or less told I was being sexist for not thinking about women’s rights. Why??
I consider myself to be a young intelligent woman, and I used to b a massive fan of Channel 4, because it broke boundaries, set agenda’s and importantly for me reflected and (more times than not) spoke to a multi- ethnic Britain. What’s happened! There was a time when Channel4 had a remit, they were proud of the fact, and it was reflected in the programme making. In a competive market, with digital channels, Sky etc the lines are now being blurred. BBC3 seems not much different from Channel4 yet BBC3 claims to b a youth channel, with a target audience of 16-34. I watch BBC3 for innovative comedys or tacky documentaries. But I can get tacky documentaries on other other digital and satellite channels, viewers have come to expect more from Channel 4 well I certainly have.
Channel4 in my opinion has started to cross the line and is now making tacky documentaries instead of really informative ones.
What’s become of Channel4’s documentary strand. don’t get me wrong, I watched the strand that was supposedly for women that included a tv chef finding a way to legitimise her wanting to wear fur. I believe in freedom of choice, did she really need to be paid to publicly exercise her quandry on national tv. Did the food critic (who starrred in another documentry on the digital channel i mentioned earlier, where she starved herself to see what it would be like to b a size 00, and who in my opinion not the opinion of Channel4 looks as if she could do with eating a few greasy burgers) really need to be paid to undergo botox surgeries that she obviously wanted to have done anyway. Somebody who can well afford it, having their face slashed for public voyerism and vanity is tacky.
A programme on breast feeding that I’m afraid I won’t watch. I don’t have children, but that programme seems to have been made with the hope that Kate Garraway who is a very attractive woman with an ample pair will expose that ample pair to the nation and give the men of Britain and a few women an early bedtime treat.
Women are multi faceted. It seems that programme makers seem to be obbessed with female insecurities as a way to entertain. When women ruled the world is a prime example. A programme that shouldn’t have been shown outside the T4 strand were it would have been seen as light hearted entertainment. But instead a group of neanderthals with chauvinistic views on women and a group of women from across the globe who culturally have different views on how to ascert themselves around men promised plenty but delivered absolutely nothing. Sexist, stereotypical, who was supposed to have been entertained. Getting Steve Jones to anchor it will make some people return for more but its dire.
Please hang on and keep reading as I think I am going off on a tangent to what people are saying about women in tv, but i think its relevant enough a topic to mention here for women with this condition, alopecia, and how there seems to be virtually no show dealing without, other than perhaps when Porter lost hers quite a while back. But thats old news now it seems.
I’ve just filled in some forms to ‘take part’ in various shows after having emailed lots of show makers to try to get this problem addressed. Not one has contacted me back. I am on a mission, be it pointless to rid stigma, elimate ignorance on it. Noone seems interested, is it not sexy enough, would they rather have stuff about boobs, vaginas and the like, yes hair is another string of the vanity issues, however not something that can be hidden as well, unless ofcourse your rich enough to get the top knotch wigs, or rich enough not to care on those who stare.
My assumption is ideas for shows come from men who think like my ex consultant, I walked in one day and said Hi in my usually happy (hiding whats really there) self and said to my consultant, found a cure yet. He replies did you see a porshe in the car park!
Thanks for reading!
C4 seems to do an excellent job at exploiting the weaknesses in human behaviour and some of the prgrammes are, indeed, both entertaining and educational. If I have a concern it would be that the malajusted see those weaknesses as being normal and okay which certainly is socially counter productive. I am reminded here of the young woman who admitted having had sexual partners in the hundreds and did not feel that she had a problem! We are, however, in a rapidly changing world and adaptation is imperative.
As a male I do not feel humiliated by how woman are portrayed on tv (which is only a dream) but I do not subscribe to the accusation that men do not get the same attention; what about the masses of air time given to sport, and especially Billy Bunter’s game of football; obviously we have not left behind our tribal instincts.
(Must go now as the lady of the house insists that I go shopping with her and she is not happy that I am on the Net but that’s life)!
As a rule I tend to despise reality TV shows, believing that in their attempts to generate entertaining viewing, TV executives prefer to recruit intellectually and behaviourally challenged members of the public with either borderline or overt personality disorders. This is a recipe for inducing despair in the viewing public, that just for once might like to come across someone they could admire.
That said I’ve just watched the September 18th broadcast of When Women Rule the World (the one where Richard is sacrificed) and sidestepping any debate on the show’s contribution to the exploration of gender issues, let me just say to Richard if he’s reading any of this - Richard you are a hero.
As the natural leader of the men, you were brave, inspiring and loyal; you displayed honesty, integrity and great insight and yes, you were witty with it. Your premature exit from the show is a loss to the nation and confirmed both the shallow, petty-mindedness of the women voting against you and their utter inability to appreciate true intellect and leadership in action. If it’s any consolation, your parting comments to them were wonderfully incisive and should in any fair and just universe haunt them for years to come. And the cigar - sheer class.
Frankly you are one of the smartest, wittiest and coolest blokes I’ve ever seen on TV and I feel personally richer for having discovered that there are men like you out there.
Hello I’m looking for a new job and I think you could make a funny show about me that people would laugh there faces off. All my clients have told me for years that someone needs to do a show at me because they say I’m so funny. I’m am hairdresser and permanent cosmetic artist and real peoples lifes can be funny if you know how to pull it out of them. I can talk to anyone anywhere anytime and before long we are laughing. Hey this is just an idea if you need a good laugh , have a beautiful day Jane Halbrook…..
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