Women’s rights, oil and diplomacy
I am in receipt of an email from SaudiWomenforDriving@change.org. They express frustration with US Secretary of state Hilary Clinton for not answering their plea for her backing of their campaign to be allowed to drive a car in Saudi Arabia. (for update, see addition at the bottom of the page)
Mrs Clinton, they note, is a fearless campaigner for women’s rights. The Democratic leader in Congress, Nancy Pelosi, has responded positively but from Mrs Clinton, silence.
The largest number of Saudi woman ever to set forth in their cars occurred on 17th June. One was arrested, 28 others got away with it.
The Saudi Foreign Minister, Prince Saud told me to my face several years ago that he supported the right of women to drive. But King Fahd announced last week that although he did too, Saudi society was too conservative to tolerate it. Even he stressed that there is absolutely no religious reason for the ban.
In other words the Saudi King is effectively admitting what the women protesters argue, that this is a repressive subjugation of women.
A Saudi woman describes to Channel 4 News how the driving ban affects women
The ban on car driving is only the tip of the sand dune in Saudi, women suffer much more besides, yet many of the key posts in areas like medicine are held by women. These same surgeons, doctors and teachers must depend often upon men to be present to enable them to move about in society.
Can oil dependence, defence contracts and the rest really be the only excuse for the rest of the world, the UK and the US in particular, turning a very deliberately blind eye to the oppression of women in a country described as “one of our closest allies”?
p.s. Since I wrote this, the great lady has declaimed: “What these women are doing is brave and what they are seeking is right, but the effort belongs to them. I am moved by it and I support them.” Feel the power of Snowblog!
Related posts:
- An insight into Saudi repression of women – the driving ban
- Saudi call for Iran bombing – just the tip of the iceberg?
- The uncomfortable facts about Saudi Arabia
- Why, despite the women, the BNP won
- Coming soon: Snowblog
There are 31 comments on this post
Another example of what hypocrites we are. We pay lip service to human rights but only if it doesn’t threaten our economic interests.
Money, it appears, is the magnet that throws the moral compass off its true path.
Perhaps Saudi women should withold conjugal ‘rights’ until there is reform – that is the one thing that appears to trump money for men.
You must be joking Sam there are far more women out there for men to work out their frustrations on. Women are disposable items of flesh for the sexually orientated he-man.One wife is dumped for another and so on.
An interesting slant on the gender problems in Saudi is the hypocritical Saudi Arabian who comes to this Country expects his women at home to behave in this subservient fashion and in the UK expects the women to be easy in conquest, be treated as trash and looked down upon.
The jealous male cannot cope with the independent woman, who is practical, intelligent and understands the corrupting course of male centred politics and whilst the women are being controlled somewhere outside the UK men are happy to let that be.. it is one less challenge for their inflated egos.
Now Sam having read your ‘stuff’ for quite a long time now you gender mentality seems to have moved on .
Human rights often have a way of elevating those who have been opressed and proving by example thwt women are more than equal to their male counterparts.
When women learn to reverse and use the mirrors for more than makeup then you may have a case, Sam!
A friend told me the other day that women in Afghanistan are embracing the practice of walking 3 metres behind their husbands. Apparently it stops land mine injuries. He said that it proves once again that behind every stupid man, there is a sensible woman.
For the sisters: I’m joking!
Saltaire i agree entirely with you:)
Regrettably economics rule the earth,and each country,us included protect our wealth and economies even if it affects others human rights.
As for Saudi women witholding their conjugal rights,under Muslim law their husbands would just legally rape them.
The big question is,can the Saudis,the Syrians, the Iranians etc continue to survive without their oil revenue.The answer is probably no.So if those dependent on oil ceased to buy it from such countries could we survive and would it change their laws or actions.Again the answer is probably no.
Do we have a right to interfere in the politics of another country.I would suggest no.Yet politicians do,in Iraq,Afghanistan and Libya.
It is very sad that the Saudis are so ignorant that they believe they can treat their womenfolk as they do,but it is really none of our concern.
Politicians are trying to treat our women with equality, yet now they complain that making their pension age the same as mens is unfair.
Lets sort our own affairs out first.
An interesting suggestion from Saltaire Sam, but I don’t believe that withholding sex works very well for women who are seriously considered to be second class citizens to start with. I’m afraid they would find themselves subject to marital rape, or other forms of violence.
I admire these women for getting out there and driving, but I wonder how they learn to drive in a country which forbids it to them. I hate to think that they might be risking their lives through inexperience. All this is so sad, and one despairs of the situation ever improving while the West continues to turn a blind eye to the situation of women in these repressive regimes.
The women who drive are all middle or upper class and have, or could have, learned abroad. I would love to see a sea of women taking the streets in Saudi. And staying there till they got their minimum rights.
It’s really disheartening, isn’t it, how little we value other people’s lives and how big is the gap between our government rhetoric and its real policies and actions when it comes to the suffering of millions of citizens around the world. I’m talking about Prohibition and the War on Drugs, of course! Fifty years engaged in such an irrational, heinous and criminal regime and the UK government does not care. That’s realpolitiks for you.
What is your point? You’re not advocating the lunacy of decriminalising drugs, are you?
The proponents of that stupidity only see the upside. They ignore history.
Repeal of the prohibition laws in the USA did not reduce the numbers of alcoholics or alcohol users as far as I know.
Neither did it remove criminal involvement. Criminals still distribute alcohol and cigarettes; another de-criminalised product.
I certainly do not want the State saying to my children that so called recreational drugs are OK. They are not.
Those of us who have had the misfortune to employ those who have fallen for this myth, know the truth.
There cannot be anybody in UK who is ignorant about the long term effects of cannabis and other drugs on their bodies. And please do not try the old ploy of saying that pot and alcohol are the same. They are not.
In any case, individuals are responsible for their own choices. They know the law. Break it and live with the consequences.
How long is it since women drivers here were the subject of most comedians, pub joviality and party jokes? Sure we had the right to drive but we had to fight so much prejudice from the male population.
I was even told [jokingly of course]that women should be barefoot ,pregnant and in the kitchen–by a senior colleague.
Most of us just laughed and drove anyway.[Usually more safely than men]before speed limits were tightly imposed. Before that we “crawled along”and supposedly caused accidents because we drove within the speed limits. This caused anger and frustration to the MCP’s and would be Stirling Mosses of the male population.
Good luck to the Saudi women.[As long as they are not wearing the burka.]
If they don’t cover themselves from head to foot, they are sent to prison and tortured. Read the Amnesty reports. Gender discrimination is no joke. And it should concern us all.
If women went out en masse and took the streets, they may get some crumbs of rights.
The big question nobody ever answers is “who gave rights to men to stop those of women”.
Saudi Arabia practises slavery. Full stop. And our govts are happy with money, not with principles. Especially when it’s principles they themselves respect little at home.
Marverde,i agree with you .Who gave men the right?According to Muslims ,Mohammed, yet i do not believe he said women should be subjugated. So it must be those men who supposedly translate his works to mean whatever they want it to mean.They are not religious men ,rather they are heretics who usurp religion for their own ends.
What beggars believe is that their followers are so brainwashed, they are incapable of cogent thought.
If you missed it, read it.
Mark Wallinger: Brian Haw was the conscience of a nation grown quiescent
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/mark-wallinger-brian-haw-was-the-conscience-of-a-nation-grown-quiescent-2299924.html
I, like most ,would not read this article as the Independent is about as popular as the Guardian.That said he certainly was not my conscience.I am my own.That he chose to follow a protest that was clearly a waste of time was his own decision and i would laud him for that, but such a protest is only worth while if you have followers and succeed in getting some action.
Perhaps he is like me , could not give a damn as long as he could voice his opinions.
Point of order Adrian, the Indie is nothing like as popular as the Guardian either in print or online. Indeed the Guardian is about the most visited website in the UK after the Beeb.
None of them are really profit winners. Apparently at the Times they joke that Avatar pays their wages.
Point accepted Tom ,but they are my least read papers.The Star has more appeal
Well-said, Sam. If women of ancient Greece could do it, so can their courageous Saudi sisters. They deserve our support. Meantime, least we can do is to sign/Tweet/circulate their petition. Clinton does indeed need to heed the power of Snowblog and Snowbloggers!
We can’t rely on elected politicians to safeguard and enhance democratic rights, whether at home or abroad. Most politicos clearly fear the power of social media, particularly Twitter. It enables us plebs to expose their ineptness and organise ourselves. What we need is not ‘representative’ democracy – which makes us all lazily reliant on (well-pensioned) others, ie elected politicians, but participation. With social media literally at our fingertips, we need to start acting. And maybe we can adopt Sam’s suggestion to UK arena when appropriate. The world is ours to change for the better!
Meg i do not sign web petitions.You have no idea who is hacking into our PC’s it could be Assange and his little bunch of pirates.
Adrian, I never dreamt your life was so interesting that Assange would be interested in hacking into your PC. What have you been up to!!!
I have a special safety device on my computer – it is filled with long, detailed local history essays and reports that would render most hackers comotose within a couple of minutes, and a bank account that they would have to put money into before it was worth their while taking any out.
And any salacious stuff is but a warm but fuzzy memory in my head and appears nowhere on a hard drive.
Saltaire ,us dinosaurs that survived extinction have a very long history.The secret is all tied up in my PC.
Do not forget that i am also Jon’s “little bit of grit” and you know i might have grown into a fabulously expensive pearl
Sam but Sam.. Adrian is famous now , he blogs on C4 website and can give voice to his opinions which are radical at times and after all he is used to policing and being policed.
I for another am too old to even remember my scandalous youthful behaviour and am dealing with this topsy turvey world as best as I can.
Isn’t it strange that the older we get the more we have to fight for peace.
Margaret,you know i would never have a scandalous youthful behaviour, so i can not compete with you
I led a very sheltered life until i was 13,and went to a co-ed grammar school.The shock to the system and the intrigue has remained to this day.
When i was an ambassador in the Queens uniform i was particularly adept at sampling the local fare and customs.Nothing scandalous there ,following in the footsteps of our greatest Admiral Lord Nelson.I believe he too was pickled in brandy for his return home,or maybe it was rum or wine or some other beverage that i tried.
I do not know how you can describe me as radical, though i do recall one boatswain i had a falling out with describing me as a “lower deck lawyer”,whatever that means.It was probably those words that made me go into the Police , and that stubborn, i am right streak ,that made me become a Federation reresentative.
Not that anyone would recognise those traits nowadays!!!!
Adrian, you don’t need to sign petitions since your opinions are already abundantly clear to anyone frequenting the C4 website.
Saudi women need all the support they can get from the rest of the world in their struggle against the repressive culture they live in. Perhaps at the moment the only support we can
give is encouragement which may seem like not enough but if it heartens those women to keep protesting and keeps the issue on the agenda it may be a small step in the right direction.
What amazes me is that more of the educated middle class Saudi women do not simply leave the country. Maybe they should claim asylum to stay in the UK since their repression in their own country is well-documented.
Sue -m i am appalled you are calling for more asylum seekers to this already overcrowded isle.
Did you read to day that our primary schools now contain 25%of the so called ethnic minority.
I do,however agree with you that we should shout our support from the roof tops for the women oppressed by religious idealism whether through Islam or any other establishment.
As for my opinions being abundantly clear ,i am sure i have many new ones to voice
Adrian, well if i don’t appall you at least once on every blog i would feel a failure
Not all asylum seekers are bad, scroungers or undeserving of a better life where they are not persecuted.
I havent had a chance to see the school figures but I don’t feel too bothered by the ethnicity of children in them. I am more concerned with the standards and the shocking fact that this govt will pull money out of current schools and give it to faith groups to run ‘free’ schools. Some of which will no doubt teach the girls that their purpose in life is to defer to men – the very thing we are complaining about in other countries.
So many opinions so few blogs. I await the next one with eager anticipation.
I’m amazed that countries such as Saudi Arabia , whilst grasping many aspects of western culture, have yet to allow women to drive?
Surely even the most conservative of nations would accept that social mobility ,enhances a countries society and in turn how a country can develop.
You would think that but Saudi is some way behind the UK on the social evolutionary scale and yet the UK (govt)still seems to think social mobility is a bad thing and anyone other than those who already hold the money and power should be ‘discouraged’ from trying to improve themselves. How dare they presume they have a right to a better future, should consider themselves lucky if they can find a job to scrape a living from until they are 70.
Sue-m please brush up on your politics .Surely you remember (perhaps you are too young)Lord Tebbit as he is now being castigated by the left for suggesting those looking for work should get on their bikes to find it.
Even the current Tories are once more being castigated for suggesting that those looking actively for work should consider moving to where it is available.
It appears to be the left who think social mobility is a bad thing,but then they believe in a bloated public sector paid for through taxes where the only way of bettering yourself is to become a union rep,and demand your suffering subjects should cause more misery by striking.
I think moving home to some mythical area that has full employment and a surplus of vacancies has more to do with physical mobility than social mobility! Even were it possible, which of course it isn’t when there are more unemployed than jobs and selling ones home is next to impossible.
I do not know what your so called left think but I do know I think it is possible to have a much fairer society that includes a healthy and efficient public sector along with incentives for talent in the private business arena.
I sometimes sing that popular song , but break down and can’t sing any more because it hurts women so much.
“There’s something inside so strong, but I know that we can make it , though your doing me wrong, so wrong”
and with more determination
” Brothers and sisters , when they are say we are not good enough, just look em in the eye an say… were going to do it any way etc”
This definitely makes perfect sense.