Why the TV leaders' debate is not the British way
In America the debate is the ‘thing’. In part because there is, in effect no other ‘thing’. Every appearance by the candidate is managed and reduced to an audience of loyal supporters only. The chance of a heckle, or an encounter with opponents is all but non-existent.
Hence ‘the debate’ is the ‘thing’ – the one moment when some other force – usually a news anchor and three questioning journalists – are unleashed upon all the candidates in debate.
But the ‘thing’, the debate, is so ringed around with rules, agreements, and the rest, that the chance of something exceptional, revelatory, is all but dead.
And so into our system – where the candidate is exposed daily to dozens of journalists, and occasionally even the public, every day of the campaign, either on the street or in phone ins, or at a press conferences – we have imported the American model, ringed it around with English rules, and called it the leaders’ debate.
Net result? The number of press conferences at which ‘the leader’ is present has been drastically reduced. Leaders from all parties are traipsing into loyal living rooms or safe photo ops and the chance heckle, or encounter with a non-supporter, is this year all but ruled out.
This is not the British way. Ours is not a Presidential system. We consolidate our general election campaign into a presidential one at our peril. Today there will be no press conferences, no serious opportunity to quiz the big three parties on anything.
Instead the entire thirty six hour build up is devoted to, yes, ‘the build up’. Three debates, three two day segments of a three week campaign in which effectively nothing happens, until the American imported ‘debate’.
Don’t get me wrong. The biology, the body language, the image of all three party leaders standing lectern to lectern is hugely enticing. And there is the chance of a banana skin.
But there are 76 rules tonight. If the chancellor’s debate is anything to go by, at least one major party will be on the phone at 90 second intervals accusing the broadcaster of breaking the rules. The pressure on all to ‘behave’ is palpable.
But unlike the United States our parliamentary system already brings these three leaders together at weekly intervals on the floor of the House of Commons. They shout at each other. They point score. For some of the electorate it’s too raw.
The joy of a UK general election has been that for a season the electorate’s intersection with the leaders has been on the street, down the phone line, even occasionally in the TV studio without seventy individual rules of engagement.
That day is it seems, done. Tonight will be ‘must watch’ make no mistake, but will it be the organic tussle of politics in the raw that even the most self regarding of political leaders in the past has had to weather?
There is the danger of a ‘beauty contest’.
But there is one far flung hope. That David Dimbleby, who conducts the last of the three debates, knowing it’s too late for anyone to complain, knowing too that this could be the autumn of his general election anchoring, simply rips up the rules and provokes a real debate between the three.
It’s improbable. I may be over-pessimistic. I love the idea of a debate, but I know the reality of escape from encounter and conflict that it may also represent. See what you think. I’ll be the first to accept the error of my American informed view, if I’m wrong.
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There are 50 comments on this post
good blog….. it badly needed to be said that an artificial leaders debate is not the way to do things best. The chances of David Dimbleby tearing up the rules: well that’s a forlorn hope and a sign of desperation on your part, Jon.
Jon I agree. It’s such a shame that is has to be tied up in so much red tape when the day to day processes of the House of Commons is quite the opposite! My hope is that the debates encourage more votes overall.
Let’s all face the current facts please.
The U.S. is the most powerful country in the western hemisphere and probably still in the world, although not quite sure how long that is going to last and the “Gringo’s” know that all too well.
The U.K. is just “another” U.S. state and we depend on them like we always have since their Independence. Televised debate?
It should be the least of our worries.
We need to act against a centralised world bank, which is decimating this planet. Guess who has the majority power in this CWB? Los Gringos!
adzmundo The Venus Project & CND
You have summed it up very well . Im afraid the UK is not alone in being just another US state – most of Western Europe is – and US is doing quite well at making as many countries on planet just US states – by wahtever means ” they” think fit .
This is no worthwhile debate format I can see much value in.
This “leaders’” broadcast seems to have been so structured that it will have the spontaneity of a hymn sheet recitation.
If that is they and their ‘people’s’ doing let them reap what they sow.
But as one who initially thought it was an opportunity to pose questions that might be somehow different to the editorial pre-selection our broadcast broadcasters already demonstrate from vox-pops to ‘viewers e-mails’ to ‘objective commentators’, I am under few illusions any more.
Let the best hand gesture, lip curl or nose touch win!
At which point I will await the teleprompter reader the next day to solemnly tell me who his or her bosses want me to vote for.
Sadly I agree with you, Jon. While I will watch,I’m already fearful that it will be one of the most boring 90 minutes in TV history.
Our elections have already become presidential and I’m sure, given all the restrictions, most of us can predict exactly what each leader will say. We’ve already heard it ad nauseam.
One of the key issues not being discussed so far is parliament’s failure to hold the government to account. To judge if that is going to change we need to see a lot more of the bog standard candidates and a lot less of the over trained monkeys at the top of each party.
Jon Snow,
Bitterness about one of the debates not being on Channel 4 does not become you.
Well spotted!!
From my perspective there are two elements which predominantly strike me here.
You journalists, newscasters always have your eye on the ball , it is what you are paid to do . You in particular Jon will have seen political evolution as an insider for years..We havn’t.
The American type debate has been orchestrated for years and our British psyche has been to link it to corridors of power , the mafia, film stars etc. GB’s link has been with presidents who have attended our academic institutions.It is seen as part of a powerful organised institution. Don’t we feel that here now though?
Home politics.. there isn’t point scoring, they merely make themselves look fools. It is all too transparent.Sometimes normal debates throughout the week can be sensible, thus excluding PMQ’s.
We needed to stop a too liberal approach to people participation as insults and verbal abuse don’t provide solutions. The debate will depend on editors , producers and directors.the positive side ..It will be all the more enlightening when something startling and off the cuff gets through.
Will David upset the apple cart and go for it ? Did Richard I can’t remember.
Eloquently put John. There is enough phoney ‘debate’ – this seems the most phoney of the lot, and will only add to the cynicism people feel. Yes, it would be great if Dimbleby let it rip, but it won’t happen, will it…
Dimbleby let rip – now that IS amusing ,
As Ch4N has tweeted that the whole election thing is already a turn off – it will be interesting to read the ratings for this. I may begin watching but they make me so cross that I’ll probably switch off in annoyance. If I don’t fall asleep first of course.
“Tonight will be ‘must watch’ make no mistake”
YOU MUST BE JOKING !!
The best place to be whilst this drivel is on will be the pub.
“There is the danger of a ‘beauty contest’.”
Give us a break Jonny !! It’s already a beauty contest. And you play your part in making it so. It’s the same old tired old format that you’re dragging out. And if you think Dumbleby will do something radical then you greatly over estimate his abilities. He’s the biggest softball of the lot of you.
Not feeling sore that you’ve been left out of the party are you ? Or, that Mark Austin (of ITN) managed to get Gordon Brown to admit that he’d screwed up in giving the banks complete freedom whilst he was chancellor. What a scoop !
Forget the debates. We need more of the Mark Austin touch, and less chasing the PM around car factories.
Don’t underestimate the innate sense the electorate has on politicians. Yes, we vote for largess. But election promises are taken as a grain of salt. Mostly we vote for a leader who will be in our corner in the economic,political and philosophical battles around the world.Let’s see them stand up to each other so that we can read the body language.
Thanks Tom
So you have finally realised that these debates, which are Prime Ministerial debates not ‘leaders’ debates, have no place in a Parliamentary, constituency based democracy.
They are a wholly artificial construct and were re-branded as Prime Minister debates to keep the leaders of other parties out but we the people do not vote directly for a Prime Minister. No one voted for GB as Prime Minister which further underlines the artificial and undemocratic nature of the debates. We vote for a candidate in our constituency and they represent us in Parliament.
It is a total negation of democracy to tell an audience of voters that they cannot ask questions of candidates.
I think you’re mourning something mortally wounded long ago – investigative journalism. As an insider you should know that journalism was replaced with reportage years ago. Out went expensive investigative journalism to be replaced with the reprinted press release syndicated via AP or Reuters with just the news outlet’s own ‘spin’ on top. Small wonder so many press advisors are former press men.
Just like celeb news, the politician is the story. So when they offer an exclusive, they can set the rules of engagement, which inevitably leads to the Hello school of questions.
Investigative journalism is being killed by privacy laws and our draconian approach to libel and defamation. Where’s free speech when the press are afraid to publish? Witness what happened to the BBC for daring to questioning Labour over the dodgy dossier. Gilligan has been proved right, but it still cost him and the BBC’s Director General their jobs.
The public don’t like confrontations between Paxman and politicians and in the House. They’ll mourn it when its gone, anodyne contrived TV debate is no replacement for the exchanges that show you where people really stand.
I’ve long felt that the US system (long process through primaries, high cost campaigning etc) worked to ensure that no important (ie rich) interest group would ever be embarassed by the election of a candidate or policy they couldn’t stomach. The closer our system moves to theirs, the less I like it.
Advice from the Image Consultants
Gordon Brown
Problem: Seen as dour, stuffy and uncomfortable with modernity
Solution: Wears a London 2012 Olympic tee shirt and mentions how great the logo is. Takes regular gulps from his Dragonfruit Hi Energy sports drink and uses the phrase “freeze the balls of an Artic Monkey several times. Allows himself to fondle the lectern provocatively while he checks messages on his iPhone, he uses a camp hand down gesture when one of his opponents refers to him.
Advice from the Image Consultants
Dave Cameron
Problem: Seen a Toff with faux street cred despite his desire to hug a hoodie
Solution: Wears a dark three piece suit with a white shirt but no tie (Ray Winston style). Mentions bankers and spread betting but avoids using the rhyming slang alternative Bed Wetting. Reveals that his slag is up the duff but is busy establishing her own free school. As his time comes to an end he rips the lectern from its moorings and thrust it in the air champion style ensuring that the retouched veins on his forearm are visible.
Advice from the Image Consultants
Nick Clegg
Problem: Seen as light weight but sometimes tetchy with an exotic foreign wife and in the shadow of his mentor Vince
Solution: Having not shaved for two days he ambles up to the lectern with his jacket slung over his shoulder. For a moment the audience expects “Set em up Joe” from old blue eyes but is not disappointed when he breaks into that old standard rate of income tax threshold extended to £10,000. Hi demeanour is care worn but strong, He gestures to a member of the audience, “that you George?” he shouts and the camera picks out George (Cluney) who grins back.
I will watch, because i love my politics.I am afraid as previously stated it could well turn out to be a boring stilted artificial debate .It will be interesting non the less to see the body language and demeanour of the 3 leaders.I did enjoy the chancellors debate ,and if nothing more it showed there was little to choose between the 3 .
I seriously doubt that Brown will be questioned on his lies , having already admitted one yesterday.
I wait with UNBATED breath
Quite right!!
Where is Jim Flavin- my favourite.-.a writer with a unique style-?
He is feeling a bit sick at the sight of the virtaul entire” Western World ”- and more being turned into various versions of the USA – but I havent had praise like that sice my Mats teacher gave me 3p after a good display one morning – in the year dot . Now I am torn between having a look at the dreadful – or watching ” All creatures Great and Small ”- a no contest !!.
Obviusly never got a 3p for spelling!!.
I think one positive of the big debate is that it should draw a bigger audience than the smaller press conferences of the past would have done. Colleagues of mine, who don’t watch the news every evening have been commenting they are looking forward to watching the debate.
What is a “real debate”. This sounds like some West Wing fantasy.
It won’t be as good as the West Wing debate, which was aired live so even though it was scripted, it had an edge. And in that debate the ‘Obama’ figure said ‘let’s tear up the rules and have a debate’ Can’t see anyone doing that tonight.
Dear Jon
It would be OK if they carried ‘health warnings’ from the Electoral Commission, instead of ‘Smoking Kills’….’Politicians Lie’, I jest, who would say such a thing? But ‘Prime Ministers are appointed…NOT elected’.
I have just blogged about #asktheppcs
http://bit.ly/crv7C1
JS – you’re right, and it’s nice to see a top journo refuse to take the “I’ve just wet myself”route (am I the only one who thinks Robinson/Sopel/Keunssberg etc have been a bit too Westminster Village about these debates?).
50 yrs of US debates, reduced to Lloyd Bensson’s nice snipe and “there you go again”. It’s not much yield.
Didn’t the expenses scandal teach our leaders anything? They’re just closing-themselves-off-from-the-proles again.
There is a danger that the so called debate with “76 rule” may become the norm. Whilst I am looking forward to it I hope it will not signal the end of 1:1 interviews of the leaders by journalists of the calibre of messrs Dimbleby, Snow & Paxman. the fact that Cameron & Brown have already resisted a meeting with Paxman is of concern & I think Jon is right to express his worries about where all this may lead. Less of the Austin sofa style and more of the Snow style I say. It is not impossible David Dimbleby may allow some audience participation after we have seen how the first 2 debates go. He has been responsible for making QT appointment to view TV in my opinion.
As our PM is invariably the leader of the winning party, and as that leader can be changed at any time, they shouldn’t matter as individual personalities.
They should be in their constituencies finding out what matters to the fraction of the population who is being asked to vote for them.
He may be in a darkened room with a cold flannel on his brow until May 7, Margaret. Where we all should be.
I find it interesting that you don’t take into account the fact that the parliamentary system, while exposing politicians daily to public scrutiny, often becomes a competition for the best photo op or sound byte – in much the same way as the American presidential system. Party leaders, instead of talking about an issue in a way that is honest and upfront, resort to scare-mongering tactics. A televised debate, in contrast, provides an opportunity for the party leaders to express their visions for the nation in a coherent way without a fellow MP heckling them every five seconds. All this in full view of the public, and a much larger section of it than is interested in the usual parliamentary point-scoring. In fact, I’d say that the sustained build-up of public attention on the debates is one of their key advantages: it shows that the public is actually engaged in politics.
I was hoping that the British leaders debates could teach us North Americans a thing or two about how to debate in a civil manner without shouting over each other, because this is an ideal forum in which to do so. Alas, it appears that with the many rules slapped around the things, this won’t happen.
I don’t suppose anybody will join me in boycotting this non-event?
By the way, I think the SNP have just put out the None of the Above political broadcast on Channel 4. If you removed the references to Scotland, it captured my sentiments.
Thanks for posting my comment.
Truth hurts, does it?
I shall be posting a set of 76 rules outside of my front door to deal with the unlikely event of a Parliamentary Candidate knocking on it:
Rule 1 – No lying.
Rule 2 – No spin.
Rule 3 – Live in the constituency.
Rule 4 – No 2nd Job.
Rule 5 – No 2nd home.
Rule 6 – Don’t duck!
Rule…
i WATCHED , IT WAS INTERESTING . NO WINNERS , NO LOSERS . CLEGG WAS DOING WELL THEN FOUNDERED ON HIS TAX AND CUTS
I am sitting here listening to it as I write as I have not long been home for work. I must be about 40 mins through now and I’ve switched the pictures off! I know I’m tired but it was giving me this kind of hillucenary effect – I thought I kept seeing strings! Mind you body language says an awful lot and Glegg was certainly more comfortable, natural and genuine. However I’m now going to switch the sound off too – We’ve heard it all before. What a contrived load of rubbish and how safe being in a studio where they can’t even be quizzed instead of out on the streets. No I’m trying hard but I can’t take anymore – I must press the button – this sense of daja vu is making me dizzy and I feel as if i’m trapped in a Dali painting! Please just post the manifestos through my door and let me read them with a cup of tea or maybe a stiff a drink!
Jon, The election material you are presenting reveals that the anecdotal and the scientific come together in demonstrating that the voters are disillusioned with party politics, because they do not trust politicians. The increase in distrust follows the Campbell/Blair policies of spinning every issue and of politicians dissembling when asked direct questions. Why did Cable and Clegg score so well in voter approval ratings not because of their policies but because of their presentation which was to listen and answer the question.Campbell and Blair introduced US style politics to the UK and this is their legacy, voter apathy just like the US. James A.
May the truly best party win the majority in the UK. I’m American and I don’t watch our debates at all. It does come down to beauty contests sometimes. You all have your debates, as mentioned in the article, in Questions and Answers – everyone yells at each other and waves white hankies/pieces of paper and drowns out the person speaking – it makes for great viewing, by the way. When I say I don’t watch our debates, it doesn’t mean that I don’t love our political system – it’s not perfect but it works well – for us. To use an American model in a different political system and culture is ludicrous. For the person who will watch “All Creatures Great and Small” – good idea.
Everyone agrees that Clegg had the best of it and if he continuous to do so in the next two debates this will encourage people to vote for the LibDems even when there is little chance of them winning a seat. Increasing their share of the vote will give them increased leverage in the hung parliament that we seem to be heading towards.
In the election after this one with PR established it is quite realistic for Clegg to tell his troops to “go back and prepare for government”. The two party dominance is fading, the electorate is rejecting gladiatorial combat and yah boo politics in favour of a sober German style coalition.
Methinks I sense the sour grapes from J.Snow. We are in a hybrid situation with awhat is becoming a presidential type election being decided on a constituency basis. The very term leader embodies personal qualities. These cannot be ascertained by reading or analyses second hand. Thus the “debate” was a welcome step. It showed Clegg as somebody who will never have to implement anything he said so he could flow freely. Brown is the captain and behaved like a bully; Cameron was a let down. William Hague was a leader a few years too early.
My husband and I have worked very hard all our lives, and at times feel burnt out!, paid our taxes, seen many changes, (ie. free housing, come to the UK it’s free! (yeah I’m paying for it!!!) We have a daughter, who will soon be looking for work, or continuing at school/uni…. What do we say to her? Keep up the hard work, we’re British, we’ve got to pay for everyone else… Please get the balance right! This country is rapidly going down hill. The conservatives are not in tune with things, Labour is finding out the hard way, and the Lib Dems are learing on the back of our mistakes!!! Sorry to be moning, but start looking after Great Britain please!!!!!!
As I am currently watching a Channel 4 election report and I cannot believe I have just read your comment. A large section of the report is dedicated to Kristian interviewing a bunch of celebrity ‘experts’ about how they would score the leaders.
There is no proper debate in this country because the media is so conceited and self-important that it cannot simply report what the politicians are saying and let us decide.
Instead it stares at its own navel examining how the politicians are measuring up to professional ‘spin standards’.
How can John Snow criticise the lack of public debate and the ‘beauty contest’ aspect when C4 doesn’t gives so much air time to this twaddle and so little to giving the politicians a chance to give us there message.
The electorate is prefectly capable of seeing through ‘spin’ without this patronising effort and I would rather see politicians be given more ‘rope’ as they are perfectly capable of ‘hanging’ themselves.
If they’re able to see through spin then why are so many people ignorant to the fact there are more than 3 parties, that the UK DOESN’T depend on the EU, all 3 main parties are left-wing…
Good to be able to reach you, Jon, and congratulations of being such a fine journalist.
The contrast between the three party leaders debating in the house and last night on television is striking, the latter being a sanitised version of the former, like adders with their fangs drawn.
Away with all but the basic rules say I, save those governing our language.We know that fewer is used in English for countable nouns like politicians and houses,less for uncountable nouns like sand and rubbish.Regrettably they do not.
Following the debate a hung parliament now seems inevitable. Can we have a grown up discussion of the implications of this for the economy? eg. with Ken Clarke – who is reported to have said that he would prefer a Labour win rather than a hung parliament. I am increasingly of the same mind, even though I hate the thought of voting Labour because Cameron’s small government is the right answer for me and he will be the more substantial prime minister.
Debate? Oh, come on! Three talking heads, no questions of any substance and an audience of stuffed shirts. The three of them will be on one of those dancing with the stars programmes next. An insult to the electorate.
Having watched two of the debates, I must say that they would be more likely to put me off voting than persuade me to do so – give me PMQs any day.