Why, despite the women, the BNP won
I didn’t want to blog about the BNP leader’s appearance on Question Time. But I would say that Nick Griffin did precisely what he came to do.
The questions raised by last night’s programme will not go away by ignoring them but by honestly addressing them, and the facts that inform them.
The one great plus to emerge is that conventional politicians, currently enduring a lower status than at any time in our lifetimes, now know they have a fight and may at last be stirred to address the pain, exclusion, and vulnerability of Griffin’s “shut out” followers.
Some of those who have found themselves fossilising on the housing list, lingering on the benefits system, shut out of a share of the boom of much of the past decade, may have found comfort in his vicious damnation of people of other ethnicities and sexual orientations.
What he did say last night included things that no politician has said on the airwaves in our lifetime. Some of his anger was directed at “the teaching of homosexuality to primary school children”. How many children are taught homosexuality by how many is a question not worth answering, because it’s an absurd question.
The very fact that Griffin was outnumbered and attacked from beginning to end served his purpose most precisely. Where was the quota of BNP supporters among the audience? “We are the victims of these people with whom I share this table,” he might have said.
As to what last night’s programme told us about how to combat the BNP, the women starred. Baroness Warsi was sharp, to the point, and intelligent. Bonnie Greer was graceful, humorous, light, leaving Griffin looking heavy and uncomfortable.
The men were at sea. They looked grumpily, either ahead, rarely attempting eye contact (Jack Straw), or with disdain (Chris Huhne).
It may all have given him another few hundred thousand votes. Do not be duped into believing that it will have lost him any. And it probably had to happen. Last night was not an end but a beginning.
Related posts:
- Is pregnancy catching?
- Access all areas: the BNP's new power
- I love the sound of breaking glass ceilings
- Men's toilets – are they taking the p***?
- One year on, but what's changed?
There are no comments on this post
mm yes the BNP, the only political party who want to jail most of their so called core voters.
I agree with you John. I was glad that there was a united front against him at the beginning but the key issues were not addressed in anyway. I too thought we may have had one or two rightwingers in there. I think the Beeb were playing safe- concerned about the opposition to them and Dimbleby did a fair job on that score. TV doesn’t provie the time and sapce for more open debates on the issues particulalry about the social exclsion that has led to BNP being voted in and the dire state of british politics in general. At least we had a bit of a debate stiriing last night
I never thought this lamentable exercise was ever going to do anything other than give Griffin votes. Peter Hain has been quite correct throughout.
Those busy crowing at how Griffin ‘lost’ have entirely missed the point – as if people who will vote for a racist nazi party are going to watch BBC Question Time or read about politics in newspapers in the first place.
Polling and elections will tell – but I am as certain as I can be that this will have vastly increased Griffin’s visibility and given his nasty party more legitimacy. You and the BBC knew this full well. And you were all certainly warned.
The vastly overrated Question Time is absolutely the last place for a forensic destruction of a racist party.
Time for you and others to make amends.
The comments Mr Griffin made about not teaching primary school about sex are frankly ridiculous. We already have one of the highest rates of teenage pregnancy in Europe, why should we not teach people about the risks of unsafe sex and about puberty as they grow into it?
And now the BNP are complaining it was unfair because London isn’t a British city (!), I’d like to think if the programme had taken place in the north west the results would have been the same. Nick Griffin doesn’t seem to understand that if he holds views that the majority of people find abhorrent then the majority of people will gladly argue with him.
Look at the Wikipedia page on Southampton. Something that kids will quite likely look at during the course of their studies. Right at the end, listed under Southampton culture, you’ll find the Gay Southampton Guide…
So I’m not persuaded that Nicks comments are entirely ridiculous. It may well be true that Homosexuality is not a formal part of the national curriculum (I’ve better things to do than study what’s in/out of the curriculum!) , but the Gay community do seem to promote themselves in places which will be seen by children and such grooming is not discouraged by the Government. I’ve also noticed that whenever sex-education is discussed on the TV, Gay rights campaigner Peter Tatchell will usually feature somewhere…
So it seems to me that Nick is not completely wrong. There is usually a grain of truth in what he says, even if some people do want to shout him down or dismiss him as “ridiculous”, and those grains of truth are where the danger really lies…
If Dan Ashcroft thinks that teaching primary school children about sex, including homosexuality, will stop teenage pregnancies, he needs a course in psychology. To fill our childrens’ heads with sexual ideas at a young age is monstrous.
Ray Turner, I really object to your use of the word ‘grooming’. The exposure that children get to heterosexual imagery in the media is relentless and you are complaining about one link to a ‘Gay Southampton Guide’? It isn’t a choice, no one gets ‘turned’ gay, it is within them or not, so you have nothing to worry about.
Are you in favour of school children being protected from information about weddings? It seems to me that heterosexual marriage is just as much about sex as a gay guide to Southampton is, if not more so! Believe it or not, gay, lesbian and bi people don’t spend their entire time having sex anymore than ‘straight’ people do. Much of the information put out is because they remember the pain of being a kid growing up in past times when there was no help, support or information.
Ray Turner: the really offensive word you used was ‘Nick’; he’s no ‘Nick’ of mine.
However, this is where the BNP does gain leverage among some voters. Teenage pregnancy and teaching children how to ‘do it’ may not be unconnected. Teaching people how to procreate when they’re miles away even from puberty sounds unsavoury at best. If mainstream politicians and the ‘socially-responsible’ left thought this through they could offset one plank of the BNP’s loopy ideology.
We’re seeing the fruit of the smiley-politics here, and it lets the Griffins in.
Speaking as a Lancastrian and one who doesn’t vote BNP, I think you’re bang on. Las nights show won’t have driven anyone mulling over the idea of supporting the BNP away. It was a gross showcase of the London mulitculturists who would never vote BNP slamming him as much as they could.
I would like to see a real edition of QT with Griffin back on, unannounced if need be. When the panelist is the topic, it’s hardly going to be much of a debate. Spanish inquisition perhaps, debate no.
We all have to be careful how we word our comments as misinterpretation causes more trouble than might have been intended.. A few words which might suggest offence but are not meant, sometimes only serves to fuel arguments for those who feel that they are being excluded.
e.g. I have just written on a blog site ” friends are those who say that they do everything for you , but actually leave you out of everything”
This is what it has been like for 15 years whilst many highly qualified Brits try to get jobs.
I have worked in the NHS since 1968 , multi- ethnicity was fun , we didn’t even notice colour,, many of our docs and nurses intermarried and why not?
Things have changed . If we complain that too many staff are being brought in from other countries we are accused of being racist, but that is also the same for Asians , Africans and so on we are all feeling the pinch.
The BBC and yourselves did well to respect the democratic process .There is a lot of common feeling with Nick Griffin out there which if supressed and not discussed in the open , will explode like a time bomb
I suspect that the first thing that this might change is the BNP’s poll numbers: the shame effect might reduce with the party’s participation in a ‘normal’ political programme, leading to a higher reported vote share. Guess we won’t know for sure what will change until local elections in 2011 (as likely 6 May 2010 General Election will skew local gov election votes held on that day).
I absolutely concur. To those who would never vote BNP, he was flailing, lost amongst heavyweights. But BNP-despisers were never the point, we were not about to change our minds.
I would like to see a youGov/similar poll amongst working class / deprived class (and majority white) people across the country asking how *they* feel he came outof it. Victimised? Oppressed?
I was relieved though that he seemd to have nothing of the charisma needed by an extreme right wing leader in order to gain long term social traction in time of economic disorder. And for that, we can be grateful.
(Personal point of view now though: Good lord, he was an incoherent, bare faced lying mess)
Not one single other member of the panel denounced the media’s distortion and lies on immigration.
Asylum seekers can’t work, they don’t get benefits, they don’t get housed nor do they get cars. They are not arriving in a flood, the UK is far from overcrowded. It is, in fact, very difficult to emigrate to the UK.
Yet these lies are repeated over and over, so much that even our politicians take them as read. And it’s the very newspapers and commentators that spout this misinformation that go-on to pretend denounce the popularity of the BNP. It’s utterly hypocritical and disgusting. I’m talking to YOU Littlejohn, Plattel and Phillips.
Mind you, when Jack ‘torture and Iraq’ Straw isn’t the nastiest politician on a panel you know you’re in trouble.
Rick. Most of your statements are not true.
I think a good rest would help!
Rick: nice rant – you’re right. Anyone who can shoot-em-up Littlejohn and Phillips in one sentence is alright-by-me.
Keep the faith.(And I.m NOT being sarcastic).
Jon, I think this is right. I agree with you especially about Warsi and Greer. One thing, though: when you interviewed Griffin on C4 News, I’m afraid you rather blustered at him as well, while he just looked very happy to be your victim. Paxo does the same (and, if Griffin has ever been on Today, you can bet Humphrys or Naughtie will have done likewise). I am sure this is the wrong approach.
I think if you can vote for a party then you should be able to hear what they stand for in a debate, regardless of how vile the party is. Denying them a platform seems like putting your head in the sand and trying to ignore a problem in politics and/or our society. Maybe we should look at ourselves before judging what happened.
I thought Bonnie Greer was fantastic. She was intelligent, witty and utterly charming, killing Griffin softly. She clearly outsmarted him and was so polite and funny that he could do nothing but nod, smile (albeit painfully) and even applaud her. Well done!
Totally agree!
I have to dispute you. Just nine years ago there was extensive discussion on TV and in print here in Scotland using similar language about homosexuality when the then-Executive tried to abolish Section 28. The language was coming from the Catholic Church, then biggest selling newspaper in Scotland, and the Chief Exec of a multinational, plus a fair few politicians who felt like joining in, rather than a fringe party with a few percentage points of the vote. I doubt that attitudes amongst the protagonists have changed that much either – they’ve just gone a bit quieter.
What did the BNP win exactly? Air time? Air time showing their leader for what he really is? Any kind of debate will have pros and cons, that’s how our political system works. But by keeping the debate alive we can keep individuals and organisations like the BNP harnessed by the instruments of democracy. What is the alternative anyway? Not allowing him on the show would have generated just as much furore in the media as his appearance, and he could have played the card of the victim even more to his advantage. He had his chance, and he came out of it looking like the bigot that he is. What’s so bad with that?
Yes, it won’t lose the BNP any votes: their electorate are unlikely to watch QT in the first place. However, it will be interesting to see how the ‘immigration card’ is played by the main parties in the next general election in an effort to maximise their appeals.Far-right supporters often find a pragmatic home with the Tories come election time and i think this is likely next year. I wonder how the other parties wil respond to this likelihood.
“Last night was not an end but a beginning.”
Let’s hope so Jon. Let’s hope it’ the beginning of a “this tiny island of ours is becoming unsustainably full” (71M by 2020 !) debate. Only the sane and grown-ups allowed.
Crikey ! How bad was Jack Straw !?
I hear what you’re saying Jon – but don’t agree with you.
NG tried, as he did last night, to sound as if he knew his facts failed at every hurdle to explain himself.
Out of his depth and failing miserably to even look honest let alone believable.
Jack failed to answer his major question of immigration which was to say the least poor – Very Poor.
The others contributed admirably on what was a moment in british tv which will be held up for years to come, like it or not, as a moment to be seen to be believed. It’s not what TV is about, but for us now, it’s as close as we get to the uncomfortable march of reality politics from the far right .. taking the limelight and not knowing really what to say or how to behave – in the headlights on REALITY itself. Time will tell if they are seamrollered into oblivion at the election – but certainly for now reality bites – that’s why we all watched – “how bad is it ?” – we all thought and now we all know.
The show seemed a typical BBC staged managed character assassination of Griffin.
The reason his party has a legitimate place, is the corrupt, devisive, memise of UK Labour & Conservatives parties. The BNP isn’t any different morally to these scum parties.
Nick Griffin performed poorly on ‘Question Time’ but, if we ever felt a need to be fair to him, he was up against a stacked panel, audience and referee, and he’s not the sharpest knife in the box. However, it is more important to see this in the context of the evolution of the BNP.
His role is simply to sanitise the BNP and make it electable. Compare this with the position of the Labour Party in the late 80s and early 90s. The latter days of Neil Kinnock and the regrettably short reign of John Smith were both dedicated to eliminating those aspects of voter perception which kept them out of power for 18 years. All they would then need was a presentable, ideally charismatic, leader to finish the job and win over the electorate. And that’s precisely what happened.
Nick Griffin is only a temporary state and is quite unfit for any office. However, once he’s finished his ‘cleansing’ task, the BNP only needs credible figurehead to follow him and the other parties will really have something to worry about. If they can get almost a million votes with Griffin up front, imagine how many they would get with a ‘Blair’ at the helm ?
Interesting , Enoch Powell was better at speaking than Nick Griffin and if he were alive today would have said I told you so. Perhaps Nick Griffin had nothing to say really as alot of the time he was smirking at those asking questions or making comments.
the danger is that the BNP are gasining credibility as the electorate are disillusioned with mainstream politics.
I was disappointed in the programme. Griffin was not allowed to expound his policies/views on much that is troubling Joe Public right now and Jack Straw et al got a free ride as their sole objective was to gang up on Griffin. They did not have to face questions regarding wider issues, not taken to task over anything much and failed to realise that Griffin and his party would not exist were it not for their own collective failings.
Unfortunately I did not see last nights prog – and I cannot acess it on BBC site [ as am in ROI ] – . There were reports of protets against him being on the show – no matter waht his policies are – and reading the posts – they seem not very good – he has the right to free speech . Nothing IMO should be done to hinder these people being given airtime etc – and the longer the prog – the better – as it appears he did not come off too well agaist some people on the panel . Concision is not desireable in any important debate – the more that is known – the better informed teh public are – the better their decisons will be .
“I cannot acess it on BBC site [as am in ROI]”
YouTube is your friend.
What a stich up by the BBC and the powers that be orchastrating the whole pantomime .
Not the usual format for Question Time that I’m used to watching.
A totally biased Dimbleby and a pack of hounds obviously briefed to kill.
I want the BNP,and any other party,to be able to make their policies known so that we can judge for ourselves.
It strikes me that the political elite and their upper class supporters are afraid that if these policies are made known to the lower classes then a change of power might be in the air.
Straw was accused by Warsi of total immigration/border control denial and once again she requested a serious debate on the issue but surprise surprise no response.
I not a BNP supporter but I am in agreement with some of their ideas just as I am with other parties.
Last nights Qt was the best platform NG will ever during his reign over BNP.
What concerns me is that on the question of immigration,and only that, he
touches a raw nerve of the “indigenous”peoples of this small island. A recent visit to London,after some 10 years,shocked me.We have been ambushed quietly and aided by the complacency of main stream political parties.If BNP ever get their act together,ie.an articulate leader,then were all in trouble.
I do not know why Nick Griffin is complaining about his treatment on QT last night. If he had watched it over the course of this year he would know that he was treated by the audience just like any other politician – that is laughed at and booed in turn and asked some pretty sharp questions he could not answer. He should compare notes with Margaret Becket, Mr Pickles and Harriet Harman to name but a few.
As for the panellists, Mr Straw was all over the place especially when trying to defend the Labour Government’s policy on immigration.
CW Howe: you’re not the first to compare it to the expenses thing. But they were all guilty of some-sort-of-fiddling. Beckett wasn’t the issue,Menzies Campbell wasn’t the issue – fiddling was the issue.
They invited Griffin on the pretext of democratic debate, and they made him the issue. He’s a horrible man with a horrible party, but the Beeb were not straight.
I found the programme fascinating. Having considered not watching, I felt it important to do so. We cannot escape the fact that people voted for the BNP, and something that was exposed was the lengths to which they are trying to go in order to make people think they ar respectable and to hide their real agenda. My view was that Griffin fell at almost every hurdle, in addition to which it was not suprising that the majority of the audience and the whole panel did not share his views as this surely reflects the fact that most people in this country do not do so either.
Griffin never convincingly denied any of the grim proclamations that were being attributed to him, but I was disappointed that the issues of facts and truth in the less savoury parts of the media was not addressed clearly by the panel. This could have led to more truths being stated about population forecasts and migration figures.
One thing that heartened me though. I never thought I would hear Jack Straw getting passionate. But let’s hear more of Bonnie Greer with all the wonderful qualities she brought to the evening.
Your summing up John is close to the best I have yet seen, Straw was the main loser, and Baroness Warsi was correct in saying he was in denial on immigration but then that applies to all main parties and certainly the BBC. What happens when our population reaches 75m? up to 100m? and will Jack Straw live in the middle of what he creates? I am a moderate voter but I thought Griffin handled himself reasonably well. He knows that he is saying what many people will only say in private. European immigration is a separate question because they will move on, but ‘other ‘ immigration should demand the qualifications that our country is short of. In many instances this discussion is too late, and people like Straw are responsible.
Jon, I agree with you. Baroness Warsi and Bonnie Greer were fabulous. Jack Straw & Chris Huhne were very disappointing.
There was a black guy in the audience who made a very good point about the main parties not addressing issues. I think this is the nub of the matter.
A further observation I would make is we all have to be objective about the type of country we are, and how can improve upon things. I’m afraid emotional ranting from any side in the debate will only foster extremism. Support for the BNP will only be undermined by objectively addressing the perceived & real issues currently driving people into their camp.
Griffin is allowed his views- the problem is why do these views exist at all?
Nick Griffin is a product of the failure of our current governing structure and the voter apathy their actions have produced.
We need Griffin to remind us what the consequences of a broken society could be if we let it keep going the way it is going.
Easy answer- VOTE
I absolutely agree Nick Griffin managed to fulfil what he set out to do demonstrate that he is representing a minority as demostrated by the way he was cajoed and “bullied” by the other panellists and audience. Unfortunately, he will have “shown” how the issues he has addresses have been overlooked and riduclued – he will not doubt gain favour with those who feel marginalised. I read Gary Younge’s article in yesterday’s Guardain newspaper – that Jack Straw and The Labour party are partly responsible for the rise in the BNP. They must accept their responsibilty and until they do they will never fully address how BNP will continue to attract poor working class whites who once were their key voters. Jon Snow is right this just the beginning and if anything Griffin has suceeded in increasing support for his party.
Nick Griffin was not the brightest of sparks last night on Question Time.
The rise of extremist parties such as the BNP always follow times of recession , fear of races which the general public do not fully understand, such as the Jews in Germany in the thirties; this time the targets are those of a different colour and Islam . The terrorists have embittered whites against Islam.
Maybe the solution would be to haul ourselves out of recession before we slip into a state where extremism rules the country.
The only worry I have is as the mainstream political parties are unpopular that the next General Election may have nasty surprises in store .
There is a saying :- Democracy is a very bad form of Government but all the others are so much worse.
Let us take heed before we see such idiots as Nick Griffin in 10 Downing Street .
Yesterdays program was a disgrace, it allowed politicaly minded people the majority ethnic minoritys to make a party political broadcast. Apart from the BNP no other panelist was asked any questions that did not support their own party. I am and have allways voted conservative and still will.
Jon Snow`s comment review on the QT of Thursday was the fairest I have seen so far.
Ch 4 deserve credit for that, as the BBC`s veteran, Dimbleby, actually joined in with the politicians, a fatal thing to do at the best of times,but doing this last night will probably mean that Nick Griffin`s appeal will be upheld, as fairness and impartiality was definitely not on the menu last night.
As for the MPs? Well nuff said about Jack Straw..perhaps there should be a device on shows like this which cut off the microphones of MPs who DO NOT answer a question, or at least have a stab before expounding for 10 minutes on an unrelated topic. Had Griffin been experienced enough to be political, if he had adopted the shifty approach used by politicians, he may have looked more credible. But he was only trying to answer the questions unaware they were from a stacked BBC deck.
The fact that BNP membership is reported as UP, is down to the politicos and the BBC.
Will there perhaps be a similarly stacked lot of Questions on a future QT for New Labour in the future?
After all, they took us to war, introduced arrest/detention without trial etc etc, and told porkies after 7/7!!
50 seats in the Commons for the BNP wouldn’t be that bad would it? It might even be healthy. The BNP would not have enough seats to cause real chaos, but would have sufficient influence to restrain and reverse a lot of the stupidity that has destroyed Britain over the last 30 years…
Mind you, that sort of philosophy is dangerous. It’s how Hitler winkled his way into power in the 1930′s. Once he had a foothold, he was able to bring Governments down and force fresh elections until he had the top job that he wanted. I’m acutely aware of that risk..
However, when I visit the 99p shop, because I’ve got to due to my position of being unemployed and unwanted, and I find that the checkout operator is an Eastern European immigrant and everything is manufactured overseas, the former scenario (BNP 50 seats) genuinely does appeal to me.
But when I stop and think about it, the risks are very evident.
It really is getting to the stage though, where I might just find my hand drifting off one of the safe choices and taking a risk on giving the BNP a kiss when in the Polling booth, seeking Divine inspirition because I’m not really satisfied with any of the choices on offer…
Lets state a disputed fact that the United States of America is the powerfullest Nation in the world and that it has a signicant problem with Racial Tension.
Is’nt it ironic that the nation’s existence is comprised of immigrants which suggest to me that Racialism could only occur or stem from a Multi-Cultured society and the only way to eradicate it, is not to be Multi- Cultured.
Duh. A big history of slavery.
i didnt watch the program, but i saw a group of youngsters who have probably never voted being allowed air time and space outside bbc hq and trying to quell legitimate debate. have seen newspaper condemnation of the program and news media condemnation , yet i have seen no answers to the mass immigration problem , the problem of illegal immigrants nor any answers to the problem of a muslim explosion, all raised by nick griffin .is there any wonder without answers that his cause becomes so popular despite his being an obnoxious individual.His criticism of straw was just and accurate.In order to side line such an individual and his party all the racial problems need to be urgently addressed
well the despicable griffin got his platform and all the panel did was echo what the majority of the british population think of him. why the hell didn’t they run rings round him with sound policy discussions on the economy, crime, education, employment etc, i think they could have made him look much more inadequate on these matters.
We can’t and shouldn’t stop Griffin speaking but we can all tackle some of the ideas commonly expressed in the media and by politicians which, perhaps unintentionally, help him along if we don’t want to support him. E.g, modern native britons are white-not true and many dark skinned ones have as long a family line here as anyone. Nor are ethnic minorities, i.e. non english speaking from non british cultures, all dark-many are white. To equate ‘ethinc minority’ with dark skinned, the subtext being a foreigner is unhelpful and actually racist. We need better ways of defining ourselves suited to modern times and modern challenges, and an escape from this government’s obsession with constant classification by colour and ancestors with the assumption that anyone not in possession of a white skin belongs to a foreign group. Not a recipe for long term integration and the BNP must love it. We desperately need a sensible non racist discussion about foriegn labour and immigration. To have this first we need to sort out who we are, in the 21st century. So please Jon Snow and your colleagues is this a bullet we can bite or not???? Maya
Hi all,
it seems to be a tough question for the 99% (90%? re British Euro elections) of people who have decided that fascism is a terrible political philosopy.
Is it better to allow an extremest group to air their views in public or to censor them?
I would hope that in a mature democracy with a well educated population could bear a public examination of the extremist’s views.
The BNP definitely won, as evidenced by the poll bounce. The bounce reflects a change in the way that I percieve the situation with the BNP, only changed over the last few days really – mainly through watching all the negative comments in the Twitterverse and the Blogosphere.
I’ve tried to explain this bounce on my own blog…
i think griffiths is an odious little man, and is party mainly thugs .That does nothing to address the clear problems there are with immigration,political correctness and a failure of the country to rejoice in being British.
Unless the major parties seriously tackle such problems, parties such as the BNP will only capitalise on that failure
Ironically it’s people like Peter Hain and the other vocal protesters that have raised the profile of Nick Griffin’s appearance on QT to hysterical proportions. These people can thank themselves for the sudden interest in the BNP, in the same way as banning ‘Relax’ by Frankie Goes To Hollywood all those years ago propelled it rapidly to number one. Idiots.
What a stitch up by the BBC and the powers that be.
Not the usual format of Question Time that I’m used to watching.
Dimbleby totally biased leading a well briefed pack of hounds.
I’m not a supporter of any party but I do agree with certain suggestions from most of them including the BNP.
Straw was accused by Warsi of complete denial with regards to immigration/border control and invited him and his party to debate this,which of course got a negative response.
I have a strong feeling now that the political elite and their paymasters are affraid that the BNP will now attract more voters from the majority lower class and therefore threaten their control.
Politics is all about power,money and ignorance of the majority lower class until they become aroused.
as if people who will vote for a racist nazi party are going to watch BBC Question Time or read about politics in newspapers in the first place……You just dont get it do you? It is comments like this that show the highly skilled plumber/electrician etc out here how totally out of touch you people are.You allow E.U. workers to pour in unchecked to undercut working tradesmen, flood our inner cities with ethnics then insult us because of the papers we read.
The immigration debate is sullied by rose-tinted glasses on both sides. On the one hand we have Nick Griffen harking back to a Golden Era that never existed, and on the other hand we have immigration advocates telling us how wonderful Multicultural Britain is.
You are both wrong.
Mulitcultural Britain can be an ugly place for some. Perhaps not for those who commute from leafy suburbs and work in cosy offices, but for many people who live in urban centres its not a joyful thing. Immigration has long ceased to be uplifting and has started to feel oppressive, even dangerous for them. An honour killing of a young girl took place not a mile from me.
The racist BNP are not the answer, but denial is counterproductive. Immigrants are just people, flawed like all of us. Some come from troubled and violent countries having no education, poor health, no skills and a language barrier. They bring baggage. To deny this is naive. For all the very real good immigration has done, we’ve also imported honour killings, female genital mutilation and terrorism.
Complaining about the racist BNP is easy. Dealing with real immigration problems is hard. Grow up all of you.
We-ell…the Saudi law which states that the visitor or migrant must be guilty in all cases because it couldn’t have happened “if he / she hadn’t come here” has a (very) small ring of sense about it. Immigrants – legal or otherwise – who commit crimes in this country should be swiftly kicked out.
I agree Colin. The growing support of Griffin underlines a suppressed problem which needs to be tackled.
He has a point though on some issues. Imagine fleeing to some parts of Asia or Africa, and then expect to be looked after and demand our rights…could be an execution..
We are better than that though . We must send an ethical message to the rest of the world ,and at the same time respect our own Homeland which so many have died to protect.
Our sanctuary must be a place to nurture and gain experience from other cultures, but we must not lose our own identity in helping those we welcome.
Dirty tricks aunty…very naughty!
Nick Griffin was totally bamboozled by the first question, obviously a BBC ploy which set the scene for the next 45 minutes.He had not prepared his brief and fluffed his lines. As a lawyer he should have sussed it would be unfair and biased from the beginning and to expect the usual BBC format was naive in the extreme.
Nick Griffin lacks the guile to turn the question around to his advantage which is something he must learn. Had he done so he could have posed the EU Lisbon Treaty referendum question and possibly found some support from the baying mob thus turning the programme around. A missed opportunity!
Love or loathe the BNP this is a wake up call we cannot ignore…
like it or not, if we do not demand our own laws , our own rights, our own constitution ,our own britishness over all other cultures within this island the BNP and others like them will prosper.We have to accept other cultures but under our law and our rules.Those that can not accept that should move to another place that accepts their beliefs
Nick Griffin will never make it to PM. The British people would never suffer a one-eyed moron for Prime Minister……
JS: you’re right about Warsi and Straw, but Chris Huhne did seem up-for-it, whereas Bonnie Greer seemed to do her Newsnight “I’m an academic so I don’t really have to bother” routine. She’s very complacent.
Interesting how Warsi chose to ignore Griffin’s image of Islam – honour killings/forced marriages/women as second class citizens, etc. In fact, she did nothing to uphold it at all.
“Some of his (Griffin’s) anger was directed at “the teaching of homosexuality to primary school children…”
A point upon which Warsi could have agreed as she has, in the past, maintained the same thing herself. She said nothing. Maybe her elevation demands a dumbing down of former views?
Exactly Phil, the attempted condescension and the fact that she employed those tactics in such a serious subject ,was thoughtless and inflammatory .
The fury is ignited by posturing superiority.
Ten minutes before the end of the programme, Dimbleby said ‘ He doesn’t want this to be all about immigration.
Priceless!!!
It’s a shame Question Time sacrificed its usually fair format where each guest is invited to respond to ‘questions from the audience’, and instead turned the programme into a blatantly planned attack on Nick Griffin. Jack Straw’s opening was ridculous, typically dodging the question to read off a written statement about the BNP, and the rest of the show didn’t do much more than that. This only served to further the BNP’s belief that they are defending those who are having their voice taken away from them.
I the electorate want to see everyone on question time. I want to see the normal format – a variety of questions asked, and each panel member given a fair chance to air their view without interruption and without a noose in sight. I want the audience to be randomly selected. I the electorate will then decide the validity and relevance of the arguments I hear, which shall be all arguments without exception. If I hear bad things I will know what to.
It did look like a lynching.
A more important story which C4 News appear not to have mentio9ned yet is Andrew Neather coming out & saying that the massive immigration of the last 11 years was not incompetence but a deliberate conspiracy by Labour, against their own working class supporters, to bring in a lot more people who would be bound to vote Labour. In what circumstances can a traditional Labour supporter with any self respect now vote for that corrupt party?
Neil Craig,
Anyone with half a brain cell could see what was happening in this country during the last twelve years…it was by government design not incompetence.
Jeff Randall, D/Telegraph wrote about a New Labour designed client state years ago. The modus operandi has always been to label those who question it as racist and close down any discussion.
The D/Telegraph has reported on this 24/10/09 but nothing on the news….
Come on Jon pull those fancy socks up of yours and cover this news item!!
it just goes to show . griffiths must be basking in all this publicity . he could have got it in no other way except media outrage . they have played into his hand
i noted with interest the weekend revelations about labour’s deliberate attempt to STEALTHILY introduce rampant immigration in an attempt to produce multiculterism.It has produced the opposite effect of creating the rise of the BNP.The sooner Labour is destroyed as a political party the better
OK.
It’s pretty obvious from the majority of responses that we no longer want increased multi-culturism and we want to be represented by a political party that truly has the interests of all British Passport holders at heart.
We can’t go back,we need to evaluate our current situation,with input from all people currently within these islands who choose to be British and collectively plan for the future.
We need a five year period in which to calm things down,look at being more self sufficient,increase home industry,in crease the basic wage to atleast £10 an hour to encourage all people into employment and truly control our borders.
BNP policies might jar with some people but, without question, the majority have more in common with his views than those espoused by the likes of the odious Straw & Co. Ask the very next person you meet (assuming you’re not a local government worker or a teacher) if they relish the thought of another 10,000,000 immigrants. And if you could ask half a dozen residents of every town and every village in this country if they’d welcome burkhas, mosques, multilingual schools and halal butchers in their high street they’d almost certainly recoil in horror. That’s the truth, isn’t it.
Come on, Jon! Let’s see the ‘Official Immigration Policy’ scandal well and truly investigated.