For so important a meeting, it’s an incredible shambles here in Brussels. Many reporters came in anticipation of real figures being deployed in a package of solutions to the eurozone crisis.

But it could be that tonight will see a conclusion of the summit of eurozone leaders without a serious figure in sight.

It seems more likely that economics will give way to politics, and politics will speak of the parameters that an eventual economic solution will adhere to.

The Germans have succeeded in preventing the European Central Bank from becoming a dumping ground for euro-debt which can be used and abused to Germany’s cost. Chinese and Brazilian sovereign funds seem to be in play, together potentially with a much bigger IMS involvement.

David Cameron is here, but without any voice in the euro deliberations. And actually, Britain stands to have to contribute more through its IMF membership.

It’s a funny old world. The meeting started half an hour late, is said to be going to last an hour, and then they have dinner – and then they go home.

If we are still here at four in the morning, one of two things is happening: either there is a desperate bid to stave off a total breakdown or there is a desperate bid to clinch a deal, against all expectations.

It’s amazingly tense, the Germans and the French calling the shots and the Italians swimming around, looking for any sort of flotsam to cling onto as their own political and economic crisis deepens by the hour.

It is extraordinary, being a bystander at such an event.

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This final session of the Pontignano conference is dominated by Obama: whether he will “make it”.

Consensus is that on health care, on a domestic climate change bill, and even in terms of economic recovery, he will…eventually (though he’ll need two terms). How the participants here love Obama – he really does walk on water it seems.

On foreign policy people here are gloomier. Afghanistan will fail. A suggestion that Nato has failed in Afghanistan is not well received, but many interventions assert that Nato no longer works as a credible alliance: there is no common enemy, warfare is asymmetric and an outfit that was designed for symmetric action against Russia is not useful against al-Qaida.

There is total disagreement about a European army; some passionate advocates and some predictable British opponents.

The matter of the UN comes up repeatedly, with France and the UK refusing to countenance giving up their seats at the UN Security Council, frustrating reform.

And as for G8, even Italians apparently believe the political, humanitarian and military architecture of world alliances is unfit for purpose.

And the message from Pontignano? Don’t look to Europe for leadership on any of this. Europe’s leadership is in a dreadful state and about to get worse. The general perception here is that David Cameron’s Tories have no interest in Europe.

I’m off back to the “day job” – I know where my editor sits and where the coffee is brewed. I don’t have to think big thoughts about the future of the world we live in, just try to get tonight’s Channel 4 News sorted out.

If you shut your eyes during the debates here in Pontignano you cannot distinguish which nationality the speaker represents.

A generation ago that would not have been true. For a start, fewer of the Italians would have spoken fluent English. Secondly globalization has harmonised much of the discourse.

That said, there is no celebration of the extraordinary creation that, historically, the European Union represents.

Love it or hate it, history has never seen such a cohesive trading union of nation states last so long, let alone with a single currency (minus UK and the merging Easter bloc, though unlike the UK they are in the waiting room).

The concern centres on the extent that Europe as a concept means so little to the average citizen that its doings are dull and its accountability to us apparently also small and dull.

Yet the problems are common – a vast gulf between the rich and poor across Europe, a vast gap between the electorate and the political elite and, in the aftermath of the downing of the Berlin wall, a serious erosion in political engagement of the sort that brought the Union into being.

Key amongst the issues we talked about this morning – immigration, the fears for jobs by the receiving population and fears too of cultural dilution. Yet the reality is that British renewal, for example would have been very severely hampered but for the arrival of young working resource, skilled and unskilled.

Italy has a more fraught relationship with immigration than the UK, though the UK has more. Here, right wing extremists are becoming ever bolder in denouncing immigrants.

The other huge issue is that of the bankers and the crash – the Europe-wide revulsion that monies that should be paying for health care and educational opportunity are being paid out to the very bankers who brought about the crash.

The Barclays development in which 45 of its senior staff have been given money to set up a company in the Caymans to buy up Barclays worst toxic assets – some called it a conjuring trick that was in concert with everything that had led to the crash.

Getting to grips with the bankers is something Europe simply hasn’t done and many pointed to the reality that if Europe doesn’t engage with the issues that exercise the citizenry, how can anyone be persuaded to get excited about it.

The struggle continues. I must go back in. Five hours talking today, three or four yet to come. Get me a drink Miss Moneypenny!

Jack Straw the Justice Secretary talked here about the “granulisation” of politics, the fragmenting of voters’ preparedness to carry on with voting for conventional old order politics.

How serious is it? I have blogged before about the disenchantment of younger voters in Ireland with their leadership and how it may come to deliver a No vote to Lisbon.

Today we are discussing the impact of the crash upon European societies – no riots, no deaths, amazingly the economic and financial carnage has claimed few actual casualties, but the jobs and livelihoods of many are gone and were it not for the benefits cushion one suspects there would have been far more strife on the streets.

What amazes me here is how few answers the conventional politicians have to it all. The real fear here is that the banks are returning to their old pre-crash ways.

Barclays’ operation to hand over toxic debts to a company who will buy them with a loan from the bank is causing a stir here.

There is much muttering about the “cynical manoeuvre” (their words not mine) to insert Tony Blair into the Presidency of Europe. Critics point to the Iraq War as one of the most divisive moments in modern European history and add that it is strange to reward one of its architects in this way.

The debate is just getting under way, so I’d better get in there.

This comes to you from the Pontignano conference which brings together British and Italian politicians, business, media, and the rest to debate the issues of the day.

We are gathered in the amazing British Embassy residence – a positively palace like establishment with palm strewn lawns, a first century aqua duct, English roses, a butler, staff, large cars and the rest. Recession, what recession?

No wonder the UK chair of the event, Chris Patten, expresses the hope that the Treasury will not exercise its sharpening scythe on this glorious remnant of Imperial times.

The theme this weekend is “After the Crash”, but a remarkable survey of young Italian and British opinion (under thirties) reveals that they think that even that title is wrong, they think we are “passing through” the crash right now.

I suspect they are right. It’s a point stressed by former Italian premier Giuliano Amato stresses in his opening remarks.

This survey of young people also reveals a strong faith in the EU. Fifty per cent of young Italians and 58 per cent of young Brits believe that the Union will make a positive impact to their chances of coming through the crash.

The Economist Intelligence Unit has fascinating data here too. Two very similar countries: Italy’s 58m people to the UK’s 61m. Italians are individually slightly better off, unemployment similar.

But Italy is aging very fast. A third of the population is over 60; in the UK it is one fifth. Both countries have seen a massive increase in public spending. Italy’s budget deficit is 8 per cent of GDP; the UK’s is 14 per cent. Youth unemployment in Italy is 22 per cent; Britain is at 15 per cent.

Just back to that poll of young people. Sixty seven per cent of young Italians believe the worst is yet to come, 25 per cent of Italians blame the government, compared to 26 per cent of Brits. Fifty four per cent of young Italians blame the banks; 54 per cent of young Brits.

In terms of survival, young Brits in general are far more optimistic than their Italian Counterparts. They believe Europe as a bloc will do better in the economic storm than their own nation state.

Amazing candor from Italian Finance Minister Giulio Tremonti: “We still have no idea what to do next about debt repayment, extending more credit and the rest.”

This is the backdrop to a fascinating debate between to relative equals. I shall keep you posted.