It's Euro mess for dessert tonight
The absurd antics unfolding around the dinner table in Brussels are giving Europe an awful name.
Protective of the national sovereignty of member states, the interests of the citizens of those states have always been represented by their heads of government.
The problem with this way of doing business is that it has all the appearance of hole-in-the-corner anti-democratic activity.
The European Parliament has never been vested with the power to represent the interests of the people who elect it – the very same citizens of those member states.
Indeed the European Parliament, itself long suspected of being a hotbed of expenses abuse and largesse, gives all the appearance of being as unrepresentative as the heads of government when they meet as the Council of Ministers – this despite the fact that we elect it.
In some ways it is remarkable that the European Union is as effective as it is. But one senses that in trying to fix a president and a foreign minister for Europe, the European ideal has hit a new low.
The choice is a mess…at its extremes it’s a choice between a man who started a war that divided Europe itself, and someone with zero international profile from a divided neo-ungovernable member state.
That choice will be made during the foie gras tonight. When the dust settles, the rest of us probably won’t give a damn anyway.
Europe is a compromise, so its president will be, together with its foreign high representative. That’s because we cannot agree, as Europeans, whether we want a convenient trading bloc or a United States of Europe.
The trouble is that because Britain, perhaps understandably, wants to stand slightly to one side of Europe, the UK has almost no influence over the way the EU evolves and gets dragged along within it.
It isn’t a happy situation. One can’t help thinking that those who have opposed the development of Europe, have backed its rapid growth of members precisely to ensure that it never works. Tonight around that Brussels dinner table they will score another victory for their cause.
Related posts:
- Has Iraq sunk Blair's presidency hopes?
- Does Barroso think the UK has a euro future?
- Will Blair supersize the EU presidency?
- Don't call the EU president 'moroso'
- Pontignano conference: the final messages
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“The problem with this way of doing business is that it has all the appearance of hole-in-the-corner anti-democratic activity.” That is is because that is exactly what it is. They didn’t like the answer so they go back for a second try in Ireland just like they do over everything. It is an Elitist project that has nothing to do with democracy and everything to do with an unelected oligarchy. As for Britons influence in Europe. The reason we have no influence in Europe is because our ministers shamefully never attend sending Civil Servants instead. I am reliably informed we are BOTTOM of the league table for attendance. Why don’t you report that because that and the gold plating is the real reason this country is hide bound by ridiculous rules.
My gut reaction was that a European President ought be be directly elected; then I remembered the Eurovision Song Contest.
Undoubtedly we should be treated to the unedifying spectacle of linguistic and ethnic regions voting for their “own” candidates, with merit and ideology playing very little part.
This points up some essential differences between the “Disunited States of Europe” and the United States of America.
The Americans can hold presidential elections because they agree on key aspects of their political culture (mostly), and speak the same language (mostly).
Europe, however, is a Tower of Babel divided by many languages, a long history of mutual hostility and wars, and a pig-headed unwillingness to recognise that we belong together.
These negative factors seem to me to be at their most extreme in my own country, the UK. Indeed, a Martian landing here could easily be forgiven for believing this to be the 51st state of the USA whose inhabitants largely regard other Europeans as incomprehensibly babbling potential enemies.
So perhaps it is better, for now, that these matters be decided by a clique behind closed doors. How sad.
How does Europe get along, well French Ignore what does not make sense (should be mandate 1 in the Lisbon Treaty) & that is usually what does not have a ounce of Common sence in it, the Netherlands knows you will stop with out its ports & does not forget the horrors of war & as it has lots of ports it sees all walks of life so trys to judge no 1 whiich helps it to focus on the important (how it got in the mess that is Iraq/Afghan I dont know, but do know Britain in it some where, Germany works cuz it has still a puppe Gove, meaning if the People esp East Germans say “Oi you cant do that” Britain or USA will say that those People are being Nazis or Communists, Spain is Spain it works cuz we all need Sun to get over the squabbling that those we elect do, its self is very well run, Kids first cuz they it future,
Britain Doesnt & so it dont work, if it got rid of it boards & had Euro prob solved, but powers & big bizz wont, cuz that would mean end of Divide & Conquer, which is the only thing its selling at the mo, & that is solely due to its big bizz & Politicians, & I have put them in right order. Even though it not.
I like.
Ok Gordon we know its you!
We were all pretty critical of the Afghan elections (Gordon included) but at least the Afghan people got to vote for who they wanted as their President.
We were all pretty critical of the Zimbabwe elections but at least the people there got to vote for their President.
We have been/continue to fight several wars, killing loads of innocent people to push our democratic system of other countries but how does this reflect on our democratic process. Maybe the Afghan army should invade the EU to push their democratic system on us – and at least that way we would get to vote for our President.
I, and my fellow UK voters, have absolutely no influence over anything that happens within Local government, Central government and/or European government. Paralysis.
I do give a damn but the present electoral systems do not work for me. Tell me how do we bring about change so that I do get a say in what happens?
Proportional representaion was a good thing 15 years ago… but now pleasee no.
i keep banging on about it Andy , but the only way we will be truly represented is if our so called representatives rule by referendum
everbody dont vote rebel and stick your two fingers up at the ruling and political classes then you will get change i am anti communist and anti capitalist
“at its extremes it’s a choice between a man who started a war that divided Europe itself…”
Saddam Hussein is in the running?!
Whether Blair puts himself forward or not , he fits the person spec for us.
Cameron should realise that when he says we are all in this together, the bigger picture is also important. Perhaps he does because relations between himself and Brown at the Queens speech looked amiable.
We are straddling between still wanting to be at the heart of Europe and Control Europe and that is what the other 26 members see.
For our purposes the latvian lady may be our best option, because of her standing on Afghanistan.
I am not very keen on duck liver pate so advocate more spice in a qualified vote for Sarkozy , as he is aware of us more than anybody and can see a true alliance ,between France and England ,He could actually use our sterling to better himself . between the less than team spirited team.
Isn’t the Sun a fantasic newspaper?
Be careful you might all lose your jobs if you dont agree with this proposition.
Jon
On another, equally contentious issue, I have finall received a reply from Baroness Royall, the leader of the House of Lords, to my complaint about their expenses.
As you might imagine, it doesn’t tell me much. It assures me ‘any formal complaints regarding peers’ expenses are investigated thoroughly by the House authorities’ and reminds me that it’s all being reviewed at the moment by the Senior Salaries Review Body.
But I presume the only people who can formally complain are other Lords, so not much progress there then!
Please keep up your campaign. It will require a lot more exposure to get the public as riled up as they are about the Commons and only then will we get real change.
See, i told you!
Europe !!! A group of countries who have no real empathy towards each other.So many wars have been fought between most of the countries, the history (that isn’t now taught ) would say that we should,at best, be arms length friends.
The Union :a totally undemocratic organisation , so far removed from the people that it is just a gravy train for the select few.
The treaty setting up a president is proof of the undemocratic nature of the beast. How many countries actually had a vote on ratification ? I believe each of those leaders that refused their citizens a vote is guilty of treason.
The president: When elected will be as undemocratic as the organisation he is said to be head of.
The remedy:Totally ignore all edicts issued by Europe , totally ignore all European laws and their human rights laws/courts.Even better withdraw completely
Veal consomme for you then Jon, or do you prefer something more bilious from a duck.
Nice, fair ,French bloke cooking up tonight ,I will compromise with French onion prepared by our own Jamie Oliver.
Croutons must be made with french flour though. and a little rocket on the side whilst Bocherini in all his elegance is playing.
I see you were in tune with google tonight ,i.e. Your tie.
Is it me or is the 2nd most influential European politician less democratically elected than Kazai?
I hope she enjoys the Petrus and has rather more positive press than other Baronesses of late. Time to ‘promote’ Ms Harman?
Very interesting, first time for me on your blog site Jon. Will get involved in due course. Meanwhile keep up the good work. You’re the Paxo of Channel 4! Love it! Particularly like the incisive questioning you make with your body language.
So now 2 people have been given positions of quite considerable authority based on an election involving 27 members. Whilst this may represent an improvement for Baroness Ashton as she has never been elected at all before this is a worse situation than the recent situation in Afghanistan.
Will we now invade the EU?
it depends who she doubles up with.
Well, in spite of all the difficulties of Europ, we should all be grateful that Blair didn’t get the job.
Why are you grateful?…. you didnt get a vote!
Euromess / Uk mess… a very messy subject here is ageism. I must protest. Whilst laws, thanks to the labour government, have been passed to prevent ageist approaches to life, it still goes on and staff are dumped from all organisations because of their age. This is usually on the premise of some other excuse.In your own trade you are aware that when women begin to age , their face disappears from screen. It does not seem to be so for men though.
Europe seems to handle age better than we do and appreciate age for all its contributions to society.
This does not mean GOK like we have to compete for a youthful type of persona and body image in a rather embarrassing arena, but rather have confidence and carry with dignity, all the experience we have gathered in life to represent an age group that is sometimes patronisingly regarded with a little sympathy.
I personally find the younger group too quick in their delivery of news. It is more interesting if their are breaths between sentences. Moira Stewart was an excellent news reader. Where has she gone?
Keep on Jon……. resist any attempts to push you out………We need a role model.
Votes dont mean anything here., but if they do, you had better all remove yourselves from your jobs as you are clocking on………. Cathy Ashton ,(if that is the corrct name ) better get out too.
As the world compacts itself from nation states to massive trading blocks, re the EU, one can see two main beneficiaries, Germany and France.
France may revel in the realisation of the Napoleanic goal, a United States of Europe. And Germany, while not admitting it ( it may be against Germam law) may realize Hitler’s dream of Germania…a German empire…well, something like it.
And you can help thinking in private closed meetings the fate of Europe’s population is being decided. Unelected leaders, rubber stamp parliament and endless laws and regulations without anyone the wiser.
However, eventually if anyone rocks the Euro boat, they will be punished. One can think of that great prophetic scene in the film Network when news reader Howard Beale is being educated by the board chairman: “You have meddled with the primal forces Mr. Beale and you must atone.”
“when the dust settles the rest of us won’t give a damn anyway” – Quite !
Jon, the Paxo of Channel 4, my favourite news programme. You ask the very questions I need answers to, and it’s fascinating to read your body language when you feel you aren’t being told the truth. Hope to engage in discussions on your site very soon.
Eileen, how I agree with you about Blair being completely swept aside, GOOD!
We seem to have two intelligent people holding the positions.
There won’t be much Rumtpy Tumpty with Cathy Ashton that’s for sure!
” There won’t be much Rumtpy Tumpty with Cathy Ashton that’s for sure! ”
If you are alluding to her not being ” a babe”, shame on you!
We are still trying to get over the ageism/ sexism of our own BBC.
Let us rejoice that she isn’t one!
Let us all Vote for UKIP and get out of the corupt Eu, as one poster has said it is like Germany has won the day.
Just what was the last war fought for for us to roll over and become party to what is going on in europe I dont think so.
I know of a pub in Kings Lynn it is called the Honest Lawyer, he has his head tucked under his arm that is the way all our lawyer mps should be then they to could not sell us as a nation down the river without a say in the matter.
referendum for the people (brown & cameron) small letters for small people no apology.
I was always brought up on the understanding that Honesty was the best policy pity out mp’s do not know of this policy not all I might add however a few at the top table do not understand this more so man of the Manse.
APB TO ALL HAPPY EURO-SCEPTICS:
You (we?) are seriously not-getting it. If Blair or another super-politician had got the job, then the whole thing might have imploded in 5yrs time, because of a ‘backbench’ nation-state-leaders’ revolt.
This can’t now happen, because nation-state-leaders are happy with their chosen personnel. This can only go one way: it can only be ratcheted-up.
In five/ten/whatever yrs time, another Blair/another Someone will make this Office his/her own.
These posts can only accrue more power, and less ‘sovereign’ input.
This is the End-of-Days for anti-federalists – the template is set; it’s over. Never underestimate the power of symbolism – we are living under a new symbol, in a new time. Rumpoy and Batgirl may be risible, but they represent a new paradigm.
In this last week, there has been more infrastructural change than Napoleon could have dreamt of.
If UKIP has any sense, it will fear.
The sad thing the UK does not realise, is that by NOT being part of the EU and helping it stand as one string whole, it will be China the next superpower, not us.
String theory in its actuality though is not confined to one third of the globe…..hence Global dominoes with financial institutions