Cradle of democracy denied a vote
The eurozone has bought time. It is in a better state to withstand a Greek default than it was a year ago. At least that is the claim of the German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble. It seems Germany has consequently become less interested in keeping Greece inside the eurozone.
The wonkier eurozone economies, particularly those that have lost their AAA status, still feel queasy if Greece goes bust – fearing they will be sucked down in the consequent chaos.
Months after Europe effectively replaced the Greek government with a hand-picked band of technocrats, today we see Europe bound upon the unedifying exercise of trying to bind the hands of any party likely to win April’s General Elections in Greece. They want all these parties to sign up to the bailout conditions agreed this week, thereby depriving the Greek electorate of the opportunity actually to vote to leave the eurozone and go bust.
It seems that the eurozone and democracy are becoming increasingly uncomfortable bedfellows. And that’s before we visit the condition of the suffering Greeks themselves.
In news terms, the Greek rebellion against austerity is becoming rather like the Northern Ireland Troubles years ago – readers, viewers are bored with it all. But deep down there is a terrible truth dawning on practically every Greek – they can never hope to pay back what they already owe, and will owe under the second bailout.
I’m indebted to an article in Vanity Fair written over a year ago for pointing out that the Greek debt represents a personal debt of a 250,000 dollars for every working Greek.
Greece can only recover with growth – currently she is going in precisely the opposite direction at the rate of over five per cent a year.
In such circumstances, what right does any institution have to deny Greeks the right to vote to go bust?
Follow @Jon Snow on Twitter.
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- The non runner in the US mid-term vote
- The gathering euro-avalanche
There are 20 comments on this post
What happens to the economy if they do declare themselves bust? This appears to be an impossible situation. I can’t quite comprehend such a colossal debt and it’s effects on a population like that.
It is so blindingly obvious that a Greece default is the only sensible course of action to lift the Greek people out of decades of misery.
Of course, it would be an astonishing precedent and a damning indictment of the European project and thus the European leaders.
So which is more important?
Greece lied about its finances to enter the Euro, is largely bust because its own people don’t want to pay tax, and you think this is an indictment of European leaders?
Perhaps you need a better straw man to push that particular barrow.
@Nello YES! How can they let it happen? I hear rumours that the misrepresentation was well known and ignored. And even if it wasn’t, what kind of idiots are they for not scrutinising more closely?
When you say
Greece lied about its finances and the Greeks don’t want to pay tax, I suspect you would not be very popular with the majority of Grecians who dont lie and pay over the odds to help others. Generalisation can be a dangerous excursion.
It seems that the eurozone and democracy are becoming increasingly uncomfortable bedfellows. That is the interesting quote that needs analysing.The Eurozone can only work in the long term by the Euro states agreeing to a federation ,where there is one controlling body and National democracy flies out the window.Ultimately that would be Germany ,as there is no logical or feasible alternative. Greece would no doubt prosper in the end but as a German satellite with no National identity,as would other states not in Greeces parlous position.The big question is,will Germany accept the Greek debt as a price for total European control ,or will it cast them aside with maybe Spain,Portugal and Italy.Will the other Eurozone countries accept a federation and loss of National democracy.Without it ultimately the Euro will fail.
We are already aware OF loss of sovereignty by being members of the EU,but that will be nothing compared to the Eurozone.
The sooner we are out of this doomed alliance the better.
Jon,
There are times when I worry about you.
Take this preposterous statement : “But deep down there is a terrible truth dawning on practically every Greek – they can never hope to pay back what they already owe, and will owe under the second bailout.”
How can you POSSIBLY know what is “dawning deep down in practically every Greek”? Answer: you can’t, it is a stupid claim. Moreover, it plays straight into the hands of those who caused this tragedy in the first place – the transnational bankers and their political apparatchiks throughout the world. Things get easier when you can blame “every Greek.” In other words, in this matter you have become a mainstream media sucker.
The fact is, once again, the people who caused all this are blaming the victims and walking away laughing after trousering billions. All your ridiculous claim does is bolster their theft and their methods of hiding it.
And you wonder why ordinary citizens hold journalists in such deeply felt contempt?
I think you are much, much better than this. But are you getting lazy…or just falling for all the propaganda?
Philip .. JON is doing Ok.. Are you? The thing about journos is they know what makes a piece readable and open to critique. Dont worry.
Perhaps “ordinary Greeks” rather than “practically every Greek” would have been a safer choice of words – but the point is that Greeks are realizing that they’re utterly out of their depths in debt.
Errm… the Greeks do retain the right to leave the Euro and go bust. Their political class though is desperate to keep them in the Euro at whatever cost though.
Their debt is actually payable… they just need to take some pretty extreme measures to deal with it and the populace are not willing to.
Commeth the hour, commeth the army…Will EU work with the Colonels? – most likely they will hold their noses and say yes.
But once again, Jon, i’m sure you’re right about the way the Greeks are feeling, and your explanation of the circumlocutions of the last year in the financial sectors of Europe, is really helpful to a person like me, who doesn’t have a detailed understanding of the way international finance works.
It is tragic for the Greeks, and as always, it is the poor and middle income folk who will suffer the most.
John Redwood was saying that Greece ought to opt out and be allowed to go bankrupt a year ago ( if correctly interpreted)
Faisal tweeted this am though, that it is official that it is more economically viable to be inside the Euro than out of the Euro.
Of course they are never going to be able to pay it back, but I agree with you they can make a new start if allowed to go free. By hanging on to Countries such as Greece with debts as they have, keeps them DOWN and in the power of the collective, giving them little voice about their own vulnerable future. Does the Eurozone want control or cooperation?
About 28 Years ago I was married to a man who became bankrupt.
Bankruptcy freed him.. not me.. and allowed him to make a new life , but he was still under the wing of another,never totally getting back his lost power. It depends on the conditions at the time of debts which are apparently wiped off and how much hold other Countries will continue to have over Greece. In the UK we could still trade confidently with Greece and let them become the cradle of a new civilisation.
The reality is, it has not been physically possible for Greece to exit the Euro……yet.
In common with most Med countries, Greece still operates a largely cash (notes & coins) economy – not plastic like the UK.
Just think of the logistics of creating, printing and distributing a whole new currency, then adapting all the ATMs and miscellaneous cash-handlers to accept the new currency, and all in a place like Greece. It took years to prepare for the Euro, and brighter folk were doing all the central planning work that time.
At the moment, the EU (well, the Germans actually) are just buying time to allow all the exit-facing countries (not only Greece) to get through much of that preparatory work, so that they can leave the Euro with a Plan B in place.
Then, at least Greece and the others can devalue to feasible levels, take a medium-term austerity hit, and plan their own ways out of the mess they got into when trying to play with the big boys.
Because when you play with the big boys, you can get badly hurt – as the Greeks and others at the fringe are about to find out.
This is what happened 10 years ago when the euro was worth 64 p.Every Country was trying to align and devalue , but alas there is the problem , no dynamic variation.
Hello Team :
Dunno where to put these; most of your blogs seem to
be concerned with other countries -How very British !
If you are looking for stories, I have some questions
that really could do with an answer :
(e) People like Waitrose – well, Waitrose – used to have
my respect and my custom for being ethical and usefully
different but under the current management they have
lost their way with rubbish deals such as “half price”
– would this be after they jacked up the price ?
Also, I am under the impression that cartels are verboten
in EU countries. It strikes me that the Waitrose promise
to match Tesco prices is indeed a cartel.
I think it is notable that virtually all the products
emanate from Premier Foods.
I have more if you want it
sincerely,
Jonathan Vickers
lizardprojects@avickers.plus.com
And this is somehow related to the Greek debt crisis.
Sorry, the connection is way too subtle for me.
How is the Greece “the cradle of democracy” when it was the last country in post WW2 Europe to have a military dictatorship? Hardly democratic!
The birth and cradle of the most powerful democracy was around 500 BC in Athens
Greece was the originator of a kind of democracy, but it did not have much to do with modern western liberal democracy.
The plight of Greece is very sad. Damned if they stay in the Euro and damned if they leave it. But at least leaving it would be damnation they have chosen.
But either way they are the sole architect of their own dilemma. I heard a very articulate and intelligent Greek statesman on the Today programme expressing his understandable distress that the Greek people were completely at the mercy of the Banks, the hedge funds and the Eurocrats.
He blamed them for poor old Greece’s problems. The only people he forgot to mention were the Greeks themselves.
If you borrow money, some day you will asked to pay it back. It’s not that complicated. If you borrow more than you can afford, trouble will ensue. Greece did, and it has. Only a Greek politician could manage to be so surprised by this.
(Well OK, maybe Mr George Brown too).