A brain-clearing respite in the aftermath of battle
The coalition is a week old and with the benefit of hindsight appears a strangely natural consequence of the long weeks of electoral campaigning we have been through.
What has seemed to some as the “party of war” and of the City is out of power. The prospect of raw Conservatism appears to be equally out of power.
The Liberal Democrats – never a very clearly defined force – are in power, apparently modifying the bits of Conservatism that supposedly frightened the horses.
The prospect of huge cuts in just about everything has a credibility it never had until a week ago.
My Snowblog pause referred to in the most recent thread was to permit a brain clearing respite in the aftermath of battle. By chance I’d agreed to participate in a charity musical, staged at the Questors Theatre in West London.
It was a professionally staged event called “Showstoppers”, a troupe of accomplished thespians staged a musical in the style of assorted composers from Rogers and Hammerstein to Verdi.
I was the man in the middle – the Director’s aide, called upon to sing and act assorted elements that tend to need singing or acting.
I got to choose the setting, the audience got to choose the title and the musical genres. I pitched for Whitehall and Downing Street as the setting. The audience chose “I agree with Nick” as the title.
I learned two things – firstly how much they hated the Lloyd Webber genre and how much they are enjoying the coalition. However I think I also learned I should stick to the “day job”.
So far, I am also enjoying the coalition. Unleashed from his right wing – for now – Cameron is emerging as an unexpected figure.
But Labour’s fall is also continuing to surprise. How exhausted and out of ideas one realises they now appear to have been. It seems too many a risky moment to be making a quick decision about who should lead them.
We now see that the cuts will come in much faster and harder than we had pre-supposed, some in this coming week.
Was it Labour’s proximity to and dependence upon the Unite union that prevented them from doing what the new Transport Minister Philip Hammond is doing – calling both sides in the BA cabin staff dispute in for talks today? What a strange self immolating dispute it is.
We live in genuinely interesting times.
Related posts:
- My Wimbledon debut
- Tiger Tiger burning bright, in the forests of the night
- Has politics been turned on its head?
- What does getting rid of Gordon Brown achieve?
There are 84 comments on this post
A new blog Three cheers for Jon.Hip Hip Hip.
Where to start, not at the beginning for there is none .In the musical?? Or straight into Politics?? Something to be controversial??Something to promote a response from the left wingers .No, something totally different.THE LABOUR PARTY.
Yes ,they had run out of ideas , on everything , except to procrastinate.Put everything off till next year and just spend as if nothing was happening.They really do need a new leader and a new direction.Ed Balls aka Unite.That woulD suit me for they should disappear into obscurity.The Millibands?? well maybe.Young and probably energetic. Yet to me , their one hope of salvation and i fear it will not happen , would be a female .YVETTE COOPER.I believe she could be very formidable and resurrect their fortunes
Adrian, your blog has confirmed what I always suspected from your replies to Claire and Margaret – you are something of a dandy and a ladies’ man.
Do you really think that Mrs Balls is that much different in her outlook from her husband or is it just that he looks like a nighclub bouncer whose been told he can’t beat up the customers while she looks terrific?
Why would the Labour Party benefit from electing a leader who is advising against moving to the left, is it not a fact that YC has already resurrected fortunes with expenses claims? Obscurity for all politicians sounds good to me.
Saltaire i will have to be very careful.I like ladies and always try to be polite to them even when i disagree lol.
I also think Maggie was the best Prime Minister since the war.I think Yvette could be just as formidible
Tez i hope they do move to the left.That would signify the end for them
Yvette Cooper? You cannot be serious! She’s about as acceptable as Hazel Blears.
An iron lady, as the French would say – Non
One thing is for sure, I am not going to terrify myself with the prospects of cuts and live in a state of anxiety .. life is too short . I worked at the weekend and a youngish mum was dying . I felt a sense of disgust with myself for even worrying about money.
David Cameron will emerge as a good coalition partner with his sidekick and I think we will all see boundaries and polices merging as artificial divisions are broken down.
As for Labour running out of ideas ..well I don’t agree.. I undertook a degree in Community with all aspects of “The big Society” incorporated.in its content. Progression, self help, reciprocation, multiagency all featured prominently in the discourse. The theory was there , but the community wanted to sing in the same direction from the same hymn sheet , fundamental communication was avoided as good will was lost to the wind.I was just a girl giving it all away . Many others were in the same position.
Now the theory of Big Society is on a bigger stage , perhaps New Labours’ plan will eventualise.
Margaret i was warming to the first part of your blog , then you spoilt it with your advocacy of Labour .I thought it was Cameron’s big society that the left wingers were scoffing at
The big society is all inclusive. NO divisions , not even those who you should wish to exclude.
For the moment, a cautious optimism that a far greater degree of open-ness ( e.g. public accounts to be independently audited) will be achieved; but in the longer term, how will they deal with the inevitable problems resulting from the cuts? Budget day is 22nd. June, said George this morning – where will the axe fall first, and where deepest? Watch and wait, and tremble -there will be strife.
New Labour, says David Miliband, has become disconnected from its traditional values and supporters. Well we all knew that, as soon as Blair invited Thatcher to Downing Street. It will be a long time before we clear that nasty taste from our mouths. Sadly, there will be a lot of Old/True Labour who will mistrust whomsoever the party elects as their new leader, because we have seen at first hand that what they say is not necessarily what they will do.
Jon
Was there a quick chorus of Your tiny hand is warmer, Nick?
talking money again.
I see that Mr Osborne is introducing his policy that no one in the public sector can earn more than 20 times the lowest paid person in the department.
I applaud this. In my opinion, no one in an organisaion is 20 times more important than any other. Even the matchless Jon Snow is no use if the camerman gets it wrong and imagine how different C4News wold be if the person who makes his ties stopped working.
But why not also in the private sector where the discrepancies are even greater? Even Ted Heath imposed his wage freeze and three day work on everyone, not just one sector.
It’s already clear that the tories have too many friends in lucrative places that they are willing to protect.
Saltaire i keep saying it but the Private sector is the money producing sector and has to be encoraged.It is the Public sector that is taking dead money (i.e taxes)
A few years ago I worked for a successful Dutch organisation which moved its corporate HQ from Amsterdam to New York. The reason? Board room pay is limited by statute in Holland – moving to NY meant pay rises.
I mention this because the result of the Dutch law – imposed in the name of fairness – was that the Dutch government lost corporate tax revenue. In effect, the policy caused HQs to leave Holland, so the money has to be made up from other sources – personal taxation.
A policy of pay formulas limited and controlled by statute looks attractive, but its effect is nasty.
Is that moral? No. Is it what happens? Yes.
You Jon Snow have got guts! To do the Showstopper thing takes some real courage . Maybe thats what Cameron and Clegg need – a course in improvisational entertainment may help them in their new reality.
I look forward to when the show takes you to Edinburgh.But before then please do stick at the day job .
What we need is a Clegg and Cameron ’8 mile’ style policy rap battle! What rhymes with ‘increase taxes’ and ‘cut spending’ …
Jon Snow of course would be in the background, on the decks wearing something like this… http://i.thisislondon.co.uk/i/pix/2009/09/bruce-snow500.jpg
You may have a point there – Cameron and Clegg have already shown an embryonic talent for improvisational entertainment, in the Rose Garden last week. Let’s hope there’s a little more substance to the next performance.
Colin. it doesn’t take guts.. just a lack of consciousness of self. Going to war takes guts:literally.
How happy is he that is not self aware.. not so many of those.
What rhymes with ‘increase taxes’ and ‘cut spending’ ?
Axes and honeymoon ending?
That photo is a corker- well done.
That was at vinopolis near Christmas. Fiona Bruce looked stunning as always.
Beware the article linked to in the “cuts to come” link.
The air tanker project was signed off a couple of years ago with the first aircraft due to be delivered next year. It has also been investigated by the Conservative led NAO so can hardly be a surprise to anyone.
The £420m (not £240m) school building programme was also well publicised and was one of the first things frozen by the new government so they can’t have been too shocked about that either.
Read “Lions, Donkeys and Dinosaurs” by Lewis Page if you want to see how dreadful Defence procurement is. Air Tanker was always a costly mistake pushed through by the RAF. What do other NATO nations do?
In fact the whole of the MoD is a moribund organisation. We need effective defence for the 21st Century. But successive Admirals, Generals and Air Marshals defend their respective turfs. It is also truism that they all need a war to justify the enormous expense of defence.
I listened to General Sir Richard Dannatt yesterday allegedly defending the war in Afghanistan. He did no such thing but merely trotted out the platitudes about defending our streets!
No journalist has compared our lack of success in Northern Ireland and Aden with the breathtakingly unjustified optimism that surrounds Afghanistan.
Save the lives of our soldiers and the extra billions that the war costs, take an axe to the MoD and our debt will reduce.
Nice to have you back Jon – hope you’re refreshed and invigorated. It’s little acknowledged just how quickly successive 14 hr days grind people down. Anyway, to business:
I find myself agreeing with David Cameron’s decision to limit top civil servants pay to no more than 20 times the lowest. If we assume the lowest are on the minimum wage, that maximum is around £260,000 (best guess) – seems reasonable to me. In fact I’d like to see it apply to all organisations funded directly or indirectly from public funds – nationalised industries, BBC, lottery fund recipients, etc.
And why not the same pay ratio in the private sector too, Paul?
Why not indeed – particularly when so much of the private sector is underpinned by public subsidies (investment allowances, collaborative research initiatives, tax credits to provide living wages, etc). However, many people draw a distinction between state benefits (bad) and tax breaks (good), which I can’t see.
“We live in genuinely interesting times”
I’m taking “interesting” as a euphemism there, Jon.
I’d agree with the comment were we not having actually to endure these increasingly hard times and were merely observing them from, say, another planet
Archie i am sure there will be many things in being that were not previously known about
I give it 3 months before Vince Cable quits. Another 3 months for the first disaffected Lib Dem MPs to resign the party whip. Now the euphoria is disippating the coalition is looking more like the cynical exercise it really was. Whenever you look at the detail in the arrangements it’s never quite the way it was being sold to us last week. Banks, nuclear power and the timing of cuts are the first examples that spring to mind and there’ll no doubt be more as time goes on.
Follow the Thirsk & Malton fight for some laughs. The Tory candidate is already complaining about the Lib Dem man’s aggressive and negative campaign. Can’t blame him really, I’d be embarrassed to be a Liberal Democrat candidate now.
Jon what a new blog .I would have liked to see you acting .Judging by your channel four news you would be excellent .A sort of Fagin of the left , reformed and now under the spell of Dave and Nick
I think it is an interesting mix.potentially. It is whether we can all live with this sense of “dis-apointment”- about letting go of the sanctity of how things are meant to hold together. I think Cameron is battling with himself-between a “could-have- been” ideal of Majority Gov.- best case scenario- and this coalition “grown-up politics”. But you can’t have it both ways. Until Cameron-Clegg really convince us that the deal that history has dealt them is really the best for our era- no one will believe it and we will all hanker after ideals of perfectly shaped politics.How will th epolicies unfold? At momentt Clegg and Cameron look dog-faced.
Will a 20% VAT rate mean a cut in the tie budget? Maybe monochrome monstrosities or even trendily tieless?
We deserve to know
Worrying times they are! In contrast to the theatre there are a few really great exhibitions on at the Tate at the minute.
Loads of young and independent artists took up the ground floor space. There was a digital drone amongst the crowds that wove it’s way through the gallery space. From interactive & digital art through to conceptual sculptor. A piece that stood out to me that afternoon was a carved baseball bat some far eastern artist created. It was everything the opposite of digital but still very contemporary. You see this baseball bat had a Buddha carved into it, a very intricate Buddha. Surrounded in either leaves or fire. Manual but still contemporary old but still new and fitting with our eco-awareness it was also recycled! The new coalition needs to stay off autopilot and find a new way to carve the baseball bat of Britain. Upstairs “Wham” by Litchenstein greets the visitors, the Bacon must have been too scary! Did you know Litchenstein was an abstract artist? Abstract minimalism will definitely be in fashion this year!
Interesting times, but very frightening times!
I hope that the new coalition was watching your interview with Professor David Blanchflower last week. Unfortunately I doubt if they were. His warnings of the consequences of cutting too drastically and too soon will have fallen on deaf ears.
Of course cuts have to be made, but at the same time we need to allow the economy to grow. Growth is as important – actually more important – than making cuts, and has to be an integral part of any sensible debt reduction plan. I don’t think I have ever heard George Osbourne use the word ‘growth’. We should never forget that the Conservatives are the ‘price worth paying’ party…and remember the price is always paid by other people. Millions of ordinary working people are about to pay the price of the Bullingdon boys banker buddies excesses. The consequences of which are about to be set (childishly and incorrectly) at the feet of the last government.
What is also very frightening is the lack of experience in this coalition. Only two ‘wise heads’, Clarke and Cable, to restrain a potentially catastrophic ‘cutting frenzy’ that is about to take place. We should be very, very frightened.
Akam, The consequences of which are about to be set (childishly and incorrectly) at the feet of the last government.????
Who is to blame then for profligate spending over a 13 year period??? The wicked witch?Alice in wonderland? Or just maybe Gordon Brown and the Labour party!!Perhaps the truth is too stark to admit
Yes there is undoubtably a price to pay and yes it will be paid by millions . Perhaps doing it voluntary may save some of the pain we are seeing in Greece.I am afraid we all have to pay for Brown’s profligacy
Adrian, that profligacy included building new schools and hospitals, hiring more teachers, nurses and police, giving doctors a decent wage and givng all young children the kind of start that wealthy families take for granted.
I’m sure there was some waste as well – trident, war in Iraq, Mrs Thatcher’s detectives spring to mind but it wasn’t all waste.
And it’s interesting that the first thing George Osborne has done is to set up a new quango – no doubt well paid – when I thought his big idea was to hand control to the Bank of England.
Saltaire if you are going to correct me get your facts right. More new schools, you should have added hospitals too ,All built through PFI and a forty year debt to repay.Incidently a debt kept off the books so the real debt does not look as bad as it is.
More teachers , you mean teaching assistants ,barely trained and teachers standards reduced as the training has been cut.
More Nurses .You mean more managers, so the NHS is over regulated ,and overspent .Dirty hospitals where patients are dying through inferior care
More police. More CPSO’S who do not have police training , can not arrest or carry out many basic police tasks .Less police on the beat because of red tape and over regulation.
Increased doctors pay .No doctor on less than 100,000.supposedly providing 24 hour care but not.Letting barely qualified locums cover and foreign doctors whose qualifications are not checked
Yes Saltaire the brave new world of Socialism that is totally , because of mismanagement , unaffordable
Adrian, at last something we agree on – PFI is just another way for the private sector to rip off the public sector and make profit for the shareholders. A labour government shouldn’t have looked at it.
But you fail to address my point about capitalism. How noticeable it is that private hospitals won’t touch A&E because there’s no profit in it. So the NHS fills in.
I’d have so much more respect for your beloved wealth creators if they didn’t leave all the stuff they don’t want to the public sector and then do everything they can to avoid contributing to it.
Saltaire we are getting closer to agreement .We might yet be able to form a coalition
I do believe we need wealth creators , without them there will be no public sector.Yes i do believe many as a result of the work of others earn far too much in comparison .They can be taxed , but i honestly do not know how you control the discrepancy without putting the values of society at risk.In some respects i agree with you that they will not provide public services unless they can make a profit , yet isn’t that what our representatives should be doing ?Providing public services at a profit, so they are affordable , without one or two making excessive profits .
That involves a major revolution , that i am not sure the state is capable of providing
Oh to find your loan voice in amoungst such celabrations. I raised simular concerns a blog or to ago. Personally I do not think there are many economists who understand the full flow of difficulties within the economy. I am certain that Osborne is aware but is as you say using the phrase ‘Its a price worth paying’. I am glad not to be the only doom and gloom spreader in town.
“I learned two things – firstly how much they hated the Lloyd Webber genre and how much they are enjoying the coalition.”
They clearly have good taste then.
I think it’s time we let the new government go about its business. There will be plenty of time to take a reflective view in about 18 months.
I totally agree Richard , and perhaps Jon will be singing from a new music sheet,the Lib Con pact,Glory Glory ,Hallelujah
Not much of a rest at the weekend then Jon?
A couple of points…
Its amazing how people seemed to be afraid to speak their minds when asked to approve a recommendation in a meeting. It looks like the dissaffected & disenfranchised sections of the LibDems and Tories came out over the weekend. If they didnt like it last week they should have stood up and been counted.
Regarding the Unite issue….perhaps its time to have a rule that says that a political party (who are supposed to be running the Country as part of Central and Local Govt) should not be allowed to have Unions tightly affiliated in the way they are at the moment.
Andy, there might be some merit in your suggestion to prevent unions funding political parties, if you also cut off the supply to the Tory party from big business and off-shore billionaires.
Both are buying influence and hoping to sway politices to their advantage.
The answer, of course, is for a much tighter restriction on what parties can spend on self promotion, especially during elections, but I can’t see the loadsamoney tories agreeing to that.
I have seldom read such a mish-mash of of a post. Cameron has perhaps been freed from his far right wing. he himself remains as reactionary as ever. The idead that public spending cuts, of which you seem to approve are the only solution to economic problems is as false as it is outmoded. The Lib-Dems are not of force in power. They will be used as a validation for imposing suffering on the less-well off . For a professional commentator to claim that the coalition seems strangely to be a natural outcome of the recent election campaign without presenting supporting evidence is appalling. It is natural is it that two multiple millionaires one a cousin of the royal family with no experience of real work should hold the fate of 55million people in their hands?
What a silly comment Bert .Of course there is supporting evidence .The Tories clearly obtained the most seats , and the Liberals were the power in a hung parliament.How can you dispute that???
Where is your proof that Cameron is as reactionary as ever ,if he ever was in the first place.
If spending cuts are the false and outmoded solution to our dire financial situation , what is the correct solution ?? I have seen no alternative advocated
It’s as natural as out of work junkies having the same say as me in spending my hard earned taxes!
Don’t let your prejudices show, Bert. They had no more say about who their parents were as you and me.
If they are good for the majority of us, praise them. If they are bad, vote them out.
Hi Jon. I am not a partisan but a colourless citizen. Good you mentioned Unite as a modulating factor during BA strikes. This is right and proper as it is for the Tories to recruit M&S, Virgin.etc. to their NI debate. This is what all parties, ideologies including religions are about for thousnads of years.Parties have to promote their members or social class intersts. It is illogical to expect otherwise. There remains the fluid Liberals: A party? a political engine ? I doubt, but possibly a gear box.Political escapists ?perhaps.They are a hybrid coalition of beliefs of the least grades of both the Conservatives and Labour (probably more % of the latter) to make a centre,
a borderline between the two parties, a mild peri peri sauce, palatable to everybody in the society. Vercow is perhaps a better Clegg.This makes political lives easier, albeit either winning losers or losing winners unless an electoral system is made to measure to suit them, because this fluid centre can go in any direction any time , only the minority who are the members will stay put . This is why PR voting is ideal for the LIbDems to make use of the high tide. Meussli is not a substitute for bread and nuts.
What you say the coalition is doing, Jon, is what most of we alienated socialists thought it was doing. One of the reasons that it looks as if it might work is because it really must work if this country is ever to become a strong and stable economy again.
We are getting the expected grumpy and slightly creepy objections raised from backbenchers of both parties who feel that their rightful positions have been usurped, but it looks as if Europe and the USA are happy with us, and that is a welcome development.
Tanya you are so correct.It is time you alienated Socialists realised that Socialism doesn’t work and a/this coalition might just be the answer .If i as a hard right Tory can accept it , when i know my position could be successful.You i am pleased to see accept it could be better than Socialism ,then again anything is
Tanya, beware. He is a self confessed gigilo
And Adrian, you cannot just say socialism doesn’t work. Where has it been tried properly? Certainly not New Labour.
There is much more evidence that capitalism doesn’t work or are you blaming Gordon Brown for sub prime mortgages and banks and financial institutions collapsing? Why not add the Wall Street crash adn teh South Sea bubble?
As I’ve said many times before the private sector is always glad of the public when it needs baling out, or some pump priming, or new infrastructure being built. Where are the precious markets then?
What we need is a balanced economy that provides all sectors of society with a fair chance. What we have is a small group of people ferreting the bulk of wealth away for themselves and pulling up the ladder.
I like the sound of the new body that will oversee the Treasury and its forecasts and spending and budgets etc. George Osborne says it will be a rod for his own back. I also hope the coalition will get rid of the ineffectual FSC or give it a role that it can perform.
As for Thespians… something alarming, something disarming, something for everyone a comedy tonight! Keep it up Jon.
And Labour implemented a scorched earth policy (Gotterdammerung!) now there’s a surprise. Any minister who had anything to do with the Treasury pre 6th May should be had up for dereliction of duty. But maybe AD can be spared a little as he’s already had the forces of hell unleashed upon him by “butter wouldn’t melt in my mouth” GB.
Am I missing something? I thought that they did the improvisation thing in the Rose Garden last Wednesday.
You are so right about the speed of the Labour leadership contest.
With around 90 MPs losing seats, the parliamentary composition or the Labour party has been radically altered. The remaining MPs were not swept to power in the Blair years, they come from the ultra-safe seats, seats with traditionalist local activists: more Old Labour than New. While we looked at the newlyweds, Labour, not invited to the nuptials, shuffled quietly to the Left.
The stage is now set for a battle for the heart and soul of the Labour party. The coalition has stepped to the centre right. The Labour party in Parliament is more left leaning than it was before the election and likely to face pressure to move further by the unions, who are going to oppose public sector cuts and will not fund a leader who does. The Labour party will need extraordinary leadership if they are to avoid the fate of the Tories under IDS and Hague.
One of the most fundamental ways in which the New Labour ‘project’ was flawed was by promoting the notion that we live in a ‘classless’ society, when we clearly do not – the very sad and disempowering fact is that there is certainly no meritocracy here! In fact, society seems more stratified than ever.
Don’t know much about John Cruddas, do those of the left think he would take Labour in a more desirable direction?
It’s of note that someone said D. Milliband would be another Cameron/Clegg clone.
Naturally concerned about cuts like most people, but understand that there are some areas that need shaving back. Human beings can create a lot of waste after all. If you think about it, we don’t always live a natural life and some human-made constructs aren’t necessary.
I hope the BP oil crisis leads to tightening up of regulations & definitely support Obama in his aims with that. Perhaps a topic to feature on your next blog Jon?
Wasn’t it St. Anthony of Islington who told us we were all “middle class” now? I remember choking on my sauce sandwich when I heard that…
Annie i do not believe in class.We are unequal certainly ,but i do not put myself in deference to or above anyone else.I see it all the time in these blogs where some seem to think because someone owns property or has money ,they are in a different class.I really could not care less .I have a loving partner.We found each other on the internet .We have little money but we are happy.I know there is a big inequality in society , but all i want is for Great Britain to be great within the world and live within its means .Class is as divisive as the unions who promote it
More solid good sense from Adrian C, despite describing himself as hard right. I think that class division is one of the scourges of this country, but it will continue to prosper as long as we are a monarchy and persist in giving out baronetcies and knighthoods etc.
Like Adrian, I regard noone as either superior, and certainly noone as inferior to myself, but I hate the way the media and the press constantly lionise and fawn over the rich, the aristocracy and members of the royal family.
I think it’s possible that both D Cameron and N Clegg are the first leaders who are uncomfortably aware that they were “born with silver spoons in their mouths” and it’s possible that they are genuinely aware of the gulfs which exist between the advantaged and the poor in the UK. Whether they are truly capable of influencing this situation it is too soon to say, but by talking in terms of reducing top salaries, the huge gap between top and bottom, and tackling tax avoidance among the very rich, it appears they are going to try.
now i can fully support that blog Tanya.It is why i could never be a Socialist , because they thrive on class war.I’m a hard right Tory in the sense i believe in hanging for murder, that crime should not pay.Criminals should be locked up and not given cushy cells , tv etc.They should also work even if its for education.
I believe people should have a living wage , but that benefits , needed as a lifeline should be earned by those capable of work.
I do not believe in seperate parliaments for Scotland Wales and N.Ireland.It will eventually be the cause of the break up of the union .Where i deviate , i do believe the rich should pay fair taxes, but i also realise most of the rich (i do not include hereditories) provide the work within the private sector and that must be encouraged and be given all the help possible
Tanya, I think the divisions in our society these days are different from the old class structure. That started to decline in the 60s and the demise of manufacturing and blue collar jobs means very few people would now claim to be working class.
I think most people would, like you and Adrian, certainly not look up or down on others in the old two Ronnies/John Cleese sketch way.
What hasn’t changed is the gap between the top few percent and the bottom few percent. In fact, it has got worse because the odds are so weighted towards the haves. – money not only buys you good education and helathcare, but allows you to buy the advice that means you don’t pay anything like the same share of your salary in tax as those near the bottom of the heap.
I’m not seeking a polyanna-style state in which everyone is paid the same – but I would like to see the rewards going to those who contribute most and not just those who happen to be in lucrative fields, and I would like a society where everyone considers it their duty to contribute to the things that only the state can do and which help our fellow citizens get a decent chance in life.
Unfortunately, we live on planet Earth. The ‘Jones’ family does live next door and has a new car! Tanya, you make a pretty good job of insulting only those that you consider privileged thereby perpetuating the class “Scourge” as you put it.
I am working class but have never worked in a mine or dug holes in the road. I have ‘bettered’ myself by hard work as have many others.
By implication, our ‘lot’ now is superior to that before and I hope that my grandchildren, if I am lucky enough to have them, will be born with silver spoons in their mouths. I can tell you that being poor has little to commend it!
Men and women are naturally competetive so let’s not pretend that state controlled anything is desirable.
If the public sector is involved, it is likely to be expensive, inefficient and open to abuse. It is also more likely to be staffed by a greater number of little, arrogant busybodies than the private sector who wish to BE something rather than DO something.
They know better than anyone else about health, safety, education, parenting, food, drink, smoking, rubbish collection, freedom of speech, PC and so on.
Don’t whinge. Get out and just do it!
So, congratulations Moonbeach. You are on the way to starting your own dynasty.
But in your haste to damn the public sector, which parts are you willing to do without? Presumably you don’t want to run the police and judiciary for profits? Cancel the NHS? Do away with state education? Care for the elderly? And what about those parts of the infrastructure that benefit the entrepreneur like transport?
It’s not just a question of working hard. If it were that easy, many would be in the same position as you. But many people work hard in companies where the owner or the shareholders reap the rewards and they collect a modest wage and incidentally pay a larger percentage of it back to the state in regressive taxes like VAT.
I’m not looking for Utopia. I believe that people should be rewarded for their efforts but I am saddened by a society that seems to value people who work in the city – clever people who work hard no doubt – so much higher than say firemen, who are willing to risk their lives to protect us and our property. I don’t want equality, just a little more sense of proportion.
Sam,
My Dynasty will die out before it has begun if my children don’t get stuck in before too long!
My complaint about the public sector is that it has no incentive to deliver its services efficiently.
I have worked in both environments and believe that the private sector is more honest than the public.
For example, in the public sector, I came across more nepotism, members of secret societies who looked after their own and sheer corruption than I ever did in the private sector. You mention the police and fire service; check them out first!
You may consider profit a dirty word but it does focus the mind and reward those who contribute most. I never came across a public servant that put the economy before their desire to spend their budget by “the end of the year”.
It is also the creators of wealth that generate the money for these public servants to squander.
Of course not all are as described above but neither are those who work in the private sector.
Adrian, I agree with most of what you say about not deferring to people with money or property – these possessions don’t in themselves warrant respect. That has to be earned, and by entirely different criteria.
However, I couldn’t care less whether GB is “great within the world”. What I want is for GB to be respected within the world, but I fear that respect has never been harder to earn back, because of the way GB – the country – has behaved in the past decade.
As for Blair’s contribution to GB society, changing polytechnics into universities solely so that more people could gain ” degrees” that are largely valueless and unusable is not what I’d describe as “education”, nor did it, as he clearly hoped, immediately make our society classless.
My partner & I, incidentally, met via C4, 16 years ago; we’re both pensioners, not rich by any means but ok. I would gladly forgo the £250 winter fuel payment IF it were to be put to good use elsewhere. Apart from last winter when it paid for heating repairs, I’ve always used it for Christmas – grandchildren etc.
BUT I pray the NHS will be left out of the cuts, as promised – we are both beginning to need it more now.
The most important reason for the election was for someone else to “get a look at the books”. In response to Mr Darlings comments of today the Treasury Briefing Paper for the incomoming government should be published now. It will be good to have English Proportinal Representation in the cabinet again.
Two points: 1. The referenadum should be both for Alternative Vote system as well as Proportional Representation. 2. David Cameroon said “Labour’s method of governing was by headlines news, mine will be different: governing quietly”. I see more headline news way of governing by the New Coalition than by Labour.
I understand your position, Adrian, regarding crime, but I believe capital punishment is wrong for two simple reasons: the first is that the wrong person can be, and has been executed, and the second, is that I believe killing to be wrong, except in the defence of the self, or others.
To Saltaire, I would say that it isn’t necessrily the rich who build businesses and employment. My husband ran a business, with my help, for fifteen years in the technological industry. We employed many people over the years, trained them and often lost them to bigger companies after giving that training. We made very small profits and never had substantial wealth, but were constantly struggling to pay business tax, VAT returns and all the overheads that business with employees necessitated. OK, we didn’t make huge money, sometimes had to borrow money to improve the premises and so on. But we did make enough to live on, pay staff, train staff and sell the business as a going concern. We knew that there were thousands of other small businesses like us across the country, who actually employ more people than the big conglomerates do, but our struggles were often due to Labour.
Government’s demands
Tanya if the wrong person is executed , you could give a posthumous pardon
Adrian – you have lostit – and badly -. That is an atrocious thing to say . You are in outer space .
Do you GB will be prosperous in 3-4 years . Not IMO – you support the Rich – and their wealth creation . Supposing you had a heart attck – had to have an operation etc . Would you refuse to have it done as the surgeon is not a ” wealth creator ” – he just saves lives ??
Capital punishment exposes the hypocrisy of politicians the world over.
They sanction the killing of innocent people who have never been arrested or charged with a crime! eg Iraqi civilians, Brazilian visitors to UK, men with chair legs, lawyers with shotguns etc.
But remember Tony Blair’s comment about Sadam Hussain “of course, I am against Capital Punishment”!!!!! He should have added “but I am OK about killing innocent soldiers, men women and children in an illegal war.
Think about the victims of the guilty murderers who our society protects and compare with the deaths of innocents that our society kills.
Hang murderers and you solve our prison overcrowding. I know, a bit OTT. But only a bit!
Jim it was maybe a poor attempt at a joke , but as for the public sector , nowhere have i ever suggested we do not need it .I have only ever stated that it and other public sector organisations are dependant on taxes raised from the private sector and therefore have to be run within a finite budget
Now I am beginning to believe that some bloggers are human and not just people trying to be clever. That is endearing and puts friendship at the centre of meaning.
Although, not meaning to be hurtful , there is always something smug about couples ( like the cats who got the cream and perhaps thats how it should be) whether gay or straight .It is a familiar pattern to us single people though . We are excluded from everything as we don’t have another half. Emotional intelligence and psychology explains both sides of the conundrum ,i.e. single Versus couples and my own introspection prevents me from allowing others to analyse what I know lies inside. Remember though couples, when you clumsily lay hard into our sensitive opinions, we don’t have anyone at the back of us to say ,’ don’t take any notice.’
Lib-Dems,Conservatives and New Labour or is it new world order?
All in the same kettle of fish as far as i’m concerned.
The real problems and issues haven’t and will not be addressed but most importantly, resolved.
adzmundo The Venus Project & CND
If colourless also means gentle I am all for it as I abhor vehement attacks on peoples views and lack of respect for persons in general. I may be a bit of a bore myself ..but have to live with it.
Interestnig quote from a South African academic on high crime rates there. Relevant to UK in the new economy?
“There are extremely high rates of unemployment in some areas. All of this leads to a large element of frustration. Often this is the thing that sparks violence.
“The gap between rich and poor is still widening and it leads to what is seen as relative deprivation. The people in the very, very poor communities, they see wealth.
“It is not just a gap, it is a visible gap. The situation is aggravated by poor service delivery. Many of our municipalities are in complete disarray, complete dysfunction. This then leads to dissatisfaction. People protest sometimes very violently.”
If you have been to South Africa Saltaire , you would know it has no relevance whatsoever to the UK.The townships are tin shanty towns outside of the main cities.They have little education , poor sanitation and little or no jobs.The poor and unemployed are not protected as in this country.Yes there are big differences in living standards here but not the same depridation or hopelessness as in S.Africa
Interesting that our courts are willing to deprive people of their right to strike – ultimately the only weapon a worker has against an intransigent boss – on a technicality. Yet when voters are denied the right to vote or political parties form a government that is in many ways contrary to manifesto on which the rulers stood, the law does nothing.
I fear the next few years are going to be very hard on ordinary people
Right to strike is an interesting phrase.Is it a right under the law , or just a right to withdraw one’s labour? .If it is the former , well clearly it must be within the law , either to ballot and if successful then to be carried out.If not carried out legally , the courts have every right to stop it.
If it is just a right to withdraw ones Labour, the employer must have the right to say your job no longer exists ,i will replace you with someone who wants to work and protect the company
Adrian,An employer can hardly claim that a job doesn’t exist if he/she is threatening to replace a worker by a more malleable employee willing to do the same duties.
What is going on internationally is a reorganisation of capitalism. Create a recession, put your friends and allies in charge of regulatory and corrective authorities, reduce wages and welfare support across the board, move large amounts of public money to the private sector by way of giveaways. It requires the subjugation of the less well-off and the low paid and will include the abandonment of the middle classes if necessary. It’s a process that has gone on since the late 19th Century but this is its boldest manifestation yet. The aim is the return of serfdom. Naomi Klein has written about it comprehensively. It’s not new. The ascendancy of Thatcher and then Blair were the most recent ploys until the recent election of the pretty boys. When Thatcher was elected one of her cronies, possibly Heseltine was apparently overheard saying ‘This is class warfare and we’re determined to win it.”
Bert , there you go again, class warfare.I didnt say a job doesnt exist i said management should say on the voluntary withdrawal of labour “your job doesnt exist.In other words a new job with new terms and conditions would be created.A subtle difference and it was my response to a strike that wasnt legal under the law,
I do not see how you can accuse capitalism of creating a recession , that in this country was mainly caused by Gordon Brown , unless you are now trying to say he was a capitalist,
I am afraid i live in a totally different world to yourself
‘Men and women are naturally competetive so let’s not pretend that state controlled anything is desirable.If the public sector is involved, it is likely to be expensive, inefficient and open to abuse. It is also more likely to be staffed by a greater number of little, arrogant busybodies than the private sector who wish to BE something rather than DO something.’
The above is unsupported reactionary teipe. It is the mark of a well organised and and civilised society that it has a viable public service.
Hi Jon .May I bring your attention to the colour-swinging of Clegg’s ties ( one day yellow, next red and then blue)..Not as spectacular though as your ties and socks. Regarding future reform he is becoming more conservative than the conservatives…more imperial than the emperor. I recommend him as the next Con. leader. It has a precedent that people have worked for both parties in different times of their political life..
The consoling good premonition is that of the Governor of BoE, Mervyn King when he said that the parties who govern through this period of economic turmoil will be un-electable for thirty years…..That should be a nice political nap.