Armistice Day. The first time since the great war that we have remembered without the presence of anyone who was there.
Today I am in Coventry, a city still scarred by the last world war. Somehow today renders Armistice Day more poignant. More poignant because of the daily toll of young life in the wastes of Helmand.
Britain now at war. To what end? And when will that end come?
Some of the questions that are bound to arise when we talk with a cross-section of the general public tonight on Channel 4 News.
We shall be in this city addressing the home front on the matter of the war in Afghanistan. In the meantime, and though I shall blog again later after the two-minute silence, I would commend this poem by the poet laureate, whom I had the great honour to meet on Sunday night.
LAST POST
by Carol Ann Duffy
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
If poetry could tell it backwards, true, begin
that moment shrapnel scythed you to the stinking mud…
but you get up, amazed, watch bled bad blood
run upwards from the slime into its wounds;
see lines and lines of British boys rewind
back to their trenches, kiss the photographs from home –
mothers, sweethearts, sisters, younger brothers
not entering the story now
to die and die and die.
Dulce – No – Decorum – No – Pro patria mori.
You walk away.
You walk away; drop your gun (fixed bayonet)
like all your mates do too –
Harry, Tommy, Wilfred, Edward, Bert –
and light a cigarette.
There’s coffee in the square,
warm French bread
and all those thousands dead
are shaking dried mud from their hair
and queuing up for home. Freshly alive,
a lad plays Tipperary to the crowd, released
from History; the glistening, healthy horses fit for heroes, kings.
You lean against a wall,
your several million lives still possible
and crammed with love, work, children, talent, English beer, good food.
You see the poet tuck away his pocket-book and smile.
If poetry could truly tell it backwards,
then it would.
Commentsoldest first
lovely post thank you jon, and lovely poem from duffy.
my favourite war poem is Roads by Edward Thomas. i always try and read that on armistice day – a wonderful tribute to the beauty of nature and the horror of war.
“Now all roads lead to France
And heavy is the tread
Of the living; but the dead
Returning lightly dance:”
Beautiful poem and glad you were able to share time with Ms Duffy.
It seems to me that only a few of us don’t believe in Afghanistan or any other wars for that matter. When I say don’t believe I mean willing to “speak out”.
Why does man feel the need to kill another man? I just can’t stop asking myself this question. I know i’m not loosing the plot because I feel so strongly about the peace issue but most of us just go along with what the politicians lie to us about. I thought GB was truly offensive to all that have lost loved ones due to violent conflicts when he told the world that he knows how it feels to loose a loved one. There will always be disputes between humans as there are with other forms of life but we must start setting an example.
adzmundo CND
Not really a match for its subject. Whatever happened to metaphor?
Thanks for including Duffy’s poem, Jon. I liked it. I particularly like the angle from which she sees it all – a novel approach, I feel.
And so good to have a female Laureate at last!
Poetry can be a beautiful, melancholy medium.I do not find any solace in this poem by the poet laureate.It neither shows the futility of war ,nor true remembrance of those brave poor souls who gave their lives in hope of a better future.Nor the feelings of grieving families. It is a reasonable poem out of context
That’s a lovely poem.
The poem mentions “English beer” – oh my God,let’s hope this does’nt develop into an international incident ! Mind you,that would create a fresh blog,so…………
I am glad you are taking time to speak to the folks of Coventry tonight however I wonder if you will be the only person in the room “poppyless”?
Maybe if you are you will enlighten me as to why you refuse to wear one ?
i was pleased to see Jon at last wearing a poppy
What good is poetry to the dead – or sugary speeches – or saying how tragic it all is – they are gone – and for what ??
“What good is poetry to the dead – or sugary speeches – or saying how tragic it all is – they are gone – and for what ??”
(War) poetry is not written for the dead – it is for the living. It comforts. It helps us to ponder or face our own mortality.
In Sassoon’s – and Owen’s – case, he wrote to express anger at the futility and horror of war and it was a personal catharsis as it is for many war poets.
It does no harm to be reminded.
Jim,They are gone, but would you be here but for their bravery and the bravery of others , that you like me can enjoy freedom of being,actions and speech.
We should write /read poetry of their deeds and remember what has gone before us and why.Fine speeches of their exploits do not have to be sugary,but a remembrance of a life gone before and from us.I recently gave the Eulogy to my father and i hope it helped others remember,celebrate and give thanks that we might enjoy life to the full.
First – I dont know wheter I would be here or not . Second do not enjoy freedom ofbeing or actions or speech . The poetry may comfort the living – but IMO most / all wars are futile – eg waht good are the troops doing in Afghanistan now – are they incresing the threat to UK or decresing it . IMO the former . The tragic waste of life – well I cant see the justifiction for it – and waht thanks did those lucky enough to survive get when they returned home – unempolyment . IMO – medals are fine – but they should be accompnaied by a cash payment – to the nedal winner or his surviving reltives – a substatial cash payment – eg for loss of life [ even tho money is a poor compenstion to relatives ] at least £ 50,00 .- Then we would see how many wars there would be . And how many rich die / go to wars – very few – eg Bush got out by a farce prank – and going back to US civil war – $ 300 bought your way out of the draft – who did that favour – and wehn The Spanish Armada was defeated – The Queens reaction to help the sick and unpaid of her army – was ‘ tell them to go home – they have done their duty ” .
That poem says it all. We have a great poet laureate in Carol Ann Dufffy. Thanks for including it in your post. (Not the LAST, one hopes!)
So what’s with the poppy, Jon? Finally battered into submission…? Shame on them.
i watched 4 news at the end you asked for a show of hands for or against staying in afganistan mr snow said pretty even vote look again massive no get out vote replay it amazing i always liked mr snow until now
I love Jon Snow .His Government/Labour bias caused me on many occasions to complain to channel 4 and eventually start to blog on Snowblog .Carry on Jon
Poems such as Carol Ann Duffy’s at least give those of no ‘faith’ a vehicle for remembrance. No atheist or humanist can be truly comfortable when all formal remembrance events are suffused with the saccharined nonsense of religion.
Our recent wars, and their victims, were not religious events, so why should those sanctimonious hypocrites be allowed to hi-jack all national recognition of our war dead. If the diminishing pool of god-botherers want to have their own separate events, that’s fine by me, but allow the rest of us the opportunity to remember and respect the fallen in a formal national setting without all those fanciful fairy-tales and flagrant deceit.
I too object the remembrance of those who died fighting for their country being linked to religion. Many of our recent wars, and therefore many of our recent deaths, have been caused by religion.
Many of those who died will have been atheists, agnostics or of other religions than CofE.
It is time the religious among us – especially christians and muslims, realised how much harm in terms of wars but also bigotry and disease spread by missionaries has been done in the name of their god.
Have your faith by all means but don’t try and impose it on the rest of us. And don’t ask us to fight for it.
I enjoyed the discussion from Coventry in Ch4 News.
Perhaps, it wasn’t the right platform to ask where the extra funding for more helicopters/equipment etc should come from.
A legacy of Thatcher is that no party is prepared to make a stand on increased taxation. No party would get into power were it to state that there would an extra 10p or whatever on the pound if they got in. And yet, our demands are increasing – we expect the best in healthcare/education/you name it… how many of us are prepared to pay for it?
Kate it is 11 years since a Tory government 20 since Thatcher . Get real.Start to blame the culprits .LABOUR
Good reportage of views on Afghanistan from Coventry by Jon, though it was a national instead of a local panel of speakers. No harm in that, but Coventry people will have their say, a few days after the anniversary of the Coventry Blitz. There’s a debate led by local MP and Defence Secretary Bob Ainsworth and Bruce Kent of CND fame, on Friday November 20 in our Methodist Central Hall, at 7.30 pm.
I appreciated the discussion in Coventry and would have liked it to be longer. It would have been interesting to hear more from those who had fought there who obviously had a lot to say re- the so called ‘mission’ and the views of the soldiers themselves.
Not so keen on your comment , Jon, when you said that the Mrs Janes’ letter incident had reduced it to a matter of spelling mistakes- that is not what it exemplified for me . I had been very impressed by her and how articulate she was when she was on channel 4 news. It actually seemed to me that you did not do her justice in that reference tonight.
Interesting though it was, the discussion in Coventry left me wondering whether the Western powers can agree on how to bring Peace and democracy to a region which only knows poverty, hatred -often tribal- suffering and fear.
It might be more helpful to invite all the agencies that are involved in education and social welfare in Afghanistan to explain what progress is being made.
It is often forgotten that the US government backed the Taliban, when it suited them, to dislodge the Soviets.
It may be that sooner or later certain elements of the Taliban will have to be approached and persuaded to begin some form of powersharing, if there is to be any hope of Peace.
The politicians have once again deceived the public into thinking there is a war to be won.
It is very unlikely that military power can defeat the Taliban.
Having just travelled down to Westminster to sign up with an agency.. (yes all the way down from Manchester to London to try and get working hours as a Nurse), I was quite touched that many Londoners despite their reputation were on the whole more gentle than the ‘lot up here’ except for a few ‘taking the rip’
As part of files of Nursing bumph I had there was an unpublished selection of poems ( some lines plagiarised from Wilfred Owen, not that it matters, the message is more important than aesthetic purity ) I was reading on the train.
Harold Thornley was a soldier in the second world war in the European Campaign,He found that emotionally he was affected irrepairably by the 6,000 people who died and over 8,000 people maimed and wounded on the Normandy beaches.
He couldn’t get any body to listen to his stories at the Doctors’ surgery until he found myself. These traumatic events in worlds’ history will not go away in the minds of many ,even if we dismiss them and tell ex soldiers to ‘get on with their lives’
I was given a copy of Mr Thornleys memoirs ” Death was my shadow” as a reminder that the art of poetry doesn’t rely on metre and unused words alone.
I was disappointed that you wore a poppy in last nights Channel 4 news. I couldnt have agreed more with you when you spoke of ‘poppy fascism’ a few years ago. Your stand then was exemplary. So what has brought this turnaround?
Has Channel 4 been breathing down your neck?
As you must have noticed Joan the grandmother of a soldier killed was sitting in the front row with a white poppy, symbolising remembrance but also peace. This shows that even those most ‘expected’ to wear red poppies don’t go along with that side of it: glorification of patriotism and war.
I guess you could have worn a white poppy if you wanted to say something.
I was at the Guildhall. The ancient setting was so appropriate. Jon’s interviews earlier, especially with the little boy, set a sombre tone. We had a dignified, thoughtful discussion about Afghanistan. It was heart-wrenching to listen at first hand to the personal stories of parents whose loss was so great.
Excellent contributions from those all around me covered all the points I had considered myself. Someone mentioned “Mission creep” -so right! Changing reasons given by politicians for us being there are the biggest source of confusion. In the end, I thought we still do not have a clear idea of what has gone wrong, or what to do next.
Harry Patch’s generation were described as “Lions led by donkeys” The only difference now is the Generals do know what they are doing, but it’s the politicians who are now the Donkeys. I did wonder why Coventry MP & Defence Secretary Bob Ainsworth was so conspicuously absent, & can only assume that would have proved my point.
Today, news that MOD wallahs have been paid £300m in bonuses, 2 of them pocketing 17K each, more than a front-line soldier’s basic pay, perhaps explains why soldiers are still lacking enough equipment.
Why use offensive words like wallahs and donkeys? You do know that they are offensive, I presume. Please treat people with civility, else you undermine any argument you are trying to make.
May I say how much I appreciated the fact that you (and I believe, also, your colleague, Faisal Isalm) chose to wear the BL Remembrance Poppy primarily on Armistice Day.
Without in any way wishing to sound disrespectful, I do wonder if the promotion of the poppy appeal in large numbers of TV programmes over a 3-week period may be in danger of producing, over time, a less than sympathetic response, both financially and emotionally. That would be a shame.
P.Crome
Having many years ago been a civil servant and also a police officer , i can not see how either profession on a state salary can justifiably earn a bonus
poppy is as poppy does.
In reply to; K.Moore who criticised me for using 2 words “:Why use offensive words like wallahs and donkeys? You do know that they are offensive, I presume. Please treat people with civility, else you undermine any argument you are trying to make.
WALLAH;
1. One employed in a particular occupation or activity: a kitchen wallah; rickshaw wallahs.
2. An important person in a particular field or organization.
So applied to a civil servant raking in a 17k bonus..How is that offensive?
DONKEY:
“Lions led by donkeys” is a phrase popularly used to describe the British infantry of the First World War and to condemn the generals who commanded them. The contention is that the brave soldiers (lions) were sent to their deaths by incompetent and indifferent leaders (donkeys). The phrase was the source of the title of one of the most scathing examinations of British First World War generals, The Donkeys by British historian Alan Clark.
Are you suggesting Alan Clarks was being offensive too? Or is it just because I said current politicians were now the donkeys! OK. Lets say indifferent & incompetant politicians then!! It is still the poor bloody infantry that is suffering
Kate , you are quite right.On this occasion the Donkeys and Wallahs seem to be the pigs with their snouts in the trough.
I do not think the media have given the area too much exposure it really is for all concerned to learn and digest the news and judge the situation through enculturation not acculturation. Roadside bombs and helicopter gunships are crude devices but will recurringly be resorted to until we find other means of communicating.
What have you witnessed Jon, that causes you so many internal tensions and contradictions.?How much agony have you seen? More than most I imagine.
From an early age you were probably tall. That by itself make peers and patrons assume that you were a dominant figure and because of your background ,responsible and so on and so on.(Queen or pauper we are all subject to our upbringing)
Whether privileged or unprivileged
sadness, anger. moments of joy, regret ,survival tactics,( whilst at the same time ,in the words of Mark Twain, seeking approval of others and self approval.) ensue.
I state the obvious because that is my belief.
So Darwin continues to impact on human beings: what will survive in the struggle?
That saccharine emotion, love, is my hope .
Just another comment about poetry. It is in itself therapeutic for many traumatised individuals. Sometimes an account in prose is not a fitting tribute to the violent chaos which submerges an individuals psyche into a tumult ,which will never be understood by the many.(thank God)
The poet does not solely intend to create pretty verse for the reader, but to heighten the experience for himself in words, to make sense of the pain.
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