In the good old days anything Kim Howells MP had to say about pulling out of Afghanistan would not have made many waves.
But today’s Kim Howells is not the same as yesterday’s.
It would not be enough that he had been a Foreign Office minister. It is enough that he remains the chairman of the rubber-stamping Commons intelligence committee, so that today’s Kim Howells making a call for an exit strategy from Afghanistan, even before the appalling slaughter of five British soldiers by one of their Afghan colleagues, Mr Howells had made his call.
The question tonight is whether this signals the opening up of a schism in the Labour party over the war? It has been there all along but it has not been expressed in these terms.
The opening of Kim Howells’s mouth has inaugurated a new season, and we shall have to see who comes out to perform.
Commentsoldest first
Wouldn’t be surprised if an outbreak of common sense happened with regard to Afghanistan. Nobody has won there, not even Alexander the Great. To me, kicking someone’s door in and saying ‘you WILL have Western-style democracy’ doesn’t seem very…democratic.
Dear Jon, how can we as a country expect insurgents and Taliban supporters not to infiltrate the Afghan armed forces? They can join without anyone knowing and then once the time is right, carry out what happened yesterday. The fact is, these men can then proceed to disappear, without a trace, into the Afghan sands. Were our soldiers asleep? The british armed forces are probably the best trained in the world and one “rogue” policeman was able to kill five of the best. Doesn’t sound possible to me. Yet Gordon said that the british army will not leave Afghanistan until we have defeated the Taliban and ever increasing insurgents. Oh yes sorry, almost forgot. He did firstly say he was mortified by the loss and felt for the families and children of those killed.
I have just bought shooting history and look forward to reading it. I will learn a lot I know.
adzmundo CND
In PMQ’s Gordon Brown confiirmed that when the Afghan’s were able to govern and police Afghanistan themselves then we could consider that the UK’s job there was done and this was in line with America and the rest of Europe.
This point is nearing . Comments from the house , public in general and relatives of soldiers who lives have been lost are displaying an increasing distaste for the continued occupation.
Andrew Neild on Politics today discussed with others that our original intention was purely to combat al-quaida..most agreed.
Radio 4 read letters from soldiers describing the carnage there.
We cannot nanny state them, we are not responsible for changing their lives from bottom up. There is a growing feeling that they must do it themselves.
Brown was asked to reply to the question of corruption in the Afghan police force, dealing in hard drugs and arms.His reply was inconclusive. That split in opinion deepens,the unease is now too great.
As an ex Colonel, I wrote to William Hague about my recollections of service in Aden and Northern Ireland and predicting mutiny amongst the police and Army; an e-mail he and his staff failed to acknowledge.
Extracts are:
In Aden, on 19th June 1967, our ‘allies’ mutinied and by the end of the following day, 22 British soldiers lay dead. Lt-Col Colin ‘Mad Mitch’ Mitchell gave a short account of this in his book “Having Been a Soldier” (1969).
Later that year, UK forces pulled out of Aden, dumping hardware as we went. Now, 40+ years later, the West has little influence in South Yemen. I wonder if the families of all those who died in the conflict think that their sacrifice was worth it?
On Northern Ireland, I said that for 40 years we had failed to stop terrorists of all political hues from training and operating in our own ‘back yard’.
Please ask these politicians why they ignore our previous campaigns and why they are optimistic about Afghanistan?
How many more times must we grieve the loss of our soldiers in a useless war?
Awful though it is, why does it take the death of our military to get us questioning the continuation of British Military presence? Has the farce that was the “democratic election” gone un-noticed? Why are we there? We are billions of £s indebt, millions of us are in the red, we have no money for social services + yet we can afford to service what is effectively an invasion of another country at best / incitement to terrorism at worst.
Wish I’d lived in a previous generation, as I am so ashamed of this generation’s politics.
Please someone be our champion.
The war in Afgan is a war lost. How many fathers, sons and loved ones do we need to loose. I’m a soldiers wife. He’s due to go to afgan next year. We have 2 small children and u di fear fir my husband. How do you raise 2 children on your own. What do you tell your children, what did they fight for.
Afganistan.
Than God someone has realised that the King has no clothes.
Well done Kim.
Tim Hammick
Kim Howells MP has caught the mood of the country. I just hope he’s testing the water before the main players perform a U-turn, before its too late.
What sealed it for me today, was hearing a guest on your show relate that many of the Afghan army are injecting heroin….
The current exit strategy, mentoring, clearly isn’t really viable. If the Afghan troops were responsible, reliable, trustworthy, disciplined, honourable people it would be a good strategy, but they aint and it isn’t….
Congratulations to Kim Howells for showing some moral courage. In a time where our governing politicians seem weak and feeble he at least has mustered the courage to question our policy in Afghanistan.
Whilst Gordon Brown is happy to accept unelected leaders many are not. He has led a war as incompetently as he has done everything else. After 8 years can anyone give a cogent explanation of our plan there? Ironically the penny-pinching Gordon Brown would save the most money by taking the right decision and ending our involvement there.
In this latest tragedy the report mentioned drugs-heroin and hashish- being used by Afghan police.
Mentoring and exit strategy, but no talk of this in the studio follow up.
The root of the problem is surely the cultivation and trade in opium which has increased since the British and American troops arrival.
Are people being told the truth ?
Over 3 million people are involved in producing opium In Afghanistan.
Does ‘military strategy ‘ include alternatives to poppy production?
Out,Out,Out
I’m not holding out much hope on this one. The Labour Party and Labour Governments have been down this path before – a virtual ‘dont mention the war’. I’m thinking here of the unglorious part that the Labour Party and Labour Governments played over Ulster.
It was clear all through the 1970s, 80s and into the early 90s that there was deep dissent within Labour on the role of the British Government and Army in Ireland – but the line was always brutally held that no MP was to ever, ever, show open dissent.
But Labour has learned nothing from that.
Indeed, I can honestly state that when I first heard British media commentators assert that the the British Army’s ’success’ in Ulster would be invaluable in post-invasion Iraq… that was the point at which I argued from the outset in our Burnside coffee shop that the British adventure in Iraq would end in bloody tears.
I am in no way a poppy-fascist, but I find the absence of a poppy on Jon Snow’s lapel a gross insult to those who have died and are still dying to protect this country and our way of life; and his right to have such a freedom of choice. He is a stubborn man, and I know he won’t back down, having dug himself a hole, but he clearly has no respect, and does not want to fit in with the rest of us. Shame.
Jon Snow is greatly exercised by the war and reports each casualty avidly. Yet he refuses to wear a poppy on some daft pretence that it might be seen as partisan!! Let’s hear your defenceof this indefensible teenage posturing Mr Snowblog
Leave a comment
* Required field.