This is a heck of a day – today, Tuesday 19 May. We’re in the midst of a full-blown constitutional crisis. The Speaker is suddenly resigning (2.30pm). Gordon Brown has summoned an emergency press conference at 5.30.
There is a febrile political atmosphere. Nobody knows what the course of events will be.
I am in and around Westminster all day and will try to keep you posted.
In the meantime, your thoughts about what you think should happen to your own individual MP, what the yardstick for survival or dismissal should be, whether there should be a general election immediately, would be gratefully received by any medium you care to send them – either here on the blog or by email.
Commentsoldest first
election election election!
In any other job bringing a service in to disrepute would lead to dismissal,Not only have our MP’s been dishonest they have tarnished the reputation of our parliment! Time to deal with these people and have an election now.
Salmond seems to take a holier than every other politician attitude, yet he took £139k in expenses, over half a million in four years. Does he also get paid twice, once for being an MP and once for being the first minister.
He is in the trough.
Don’t shout to loudly we might end up with the pointy head ukip/bnp getting a seat or two. Its bad enough having the prospect of thatcherite tories ruling the roost next time without being inflicted with pointy heads as well.
Not sure even John Snow gets it -it called MPs expenses allowances once again on this evening’s news.
Also the excessive exposure to the issue of reducing the number of MPs failed to mention, let only reflect on, the damage it would do to bottom-up democracy. The more MPs (paid a respectable salary and legitimate expenses) the more they can represent us, which is after all their raison d’etre, not to be puppets of a government or behave like sheep in the face of whips.
LABOUR LABOUR LABOUR
As a police officer I prosecuted in hundreds of cases in the Magistrates Courts – I lost one.
No CPS to hinder justice.
The decision to charge was mine – there is no doubt that if I had been investigating MP’s expenses a number would have been charged with ‘criminal deception’ and convicted.
Will the prosecuters allow charge(s) against the dishonest MP’s? An example must be set to others – ‘NO MORE DISHONESTY’
Jon: [although i am not predicting any election date in the united kingdom]….
I think that the time for a general election in the United Kingdom will be coming in the immediately future, not talking in months…
~Dennis Junior~
Major constitutional changes required
No House of Lords
Elected second chamber
Proportional representation
System of recall as in California
Full disclosure of all spending not just by MP’s but parliamentary committees and junkets
All current abusers of the expenses should be properly investigated for possible fraud prosecutions.
General Elections to be statutory every four years as in the US
Smaller chamber – 400 MPs
Written constitution with full separation of powers
One can but hope!
Good question! What about the House of Lords? If there ever was a Gentlemen’s Club, it would be the House of Lords. Why isn’t John asking the question about their expenses, and need for reform? How can one side of the body that makes our laws modernise and the other side be allowed to continue to be just the opposite? John, please ask the question! Get the debate going on prime time! I bet the Lords are keeping their heads down really low and hoping you won’t.
I used to actively support Charter 88, yet, I finally gave up on political reform in Britain ever happening . However, through the events of the past tens days political reform seems to be on the agenda. I would be totally dissatisfied if Gordon Brown got his way, i.e. just address the issue of reform of M.P’s allowances. I believe the time is long overdue for absolute reform of Britain’s electorial system. Indeed, one can but hope!
I’d be interested to see the ratios of expenses claimed to debate attendance – I’d expect UKIP, Tories and New Labour to come of worse – but will they?
Hi Stephan,
You may be interested in the application put together by my friend Matt Riggot.
http://mpexpenses.appspot.com/
Hi Robert and Stefan,
how very interesting. If you sort by the “ratio” (and ignore Sinn Fein and the Speaker and Deputy Speakers, who have no participation). Labour, Lib Dem and Tories seem to almost exclusively occupy the best half (with one notable independent, Richard Taylor). Plaid Cymru, Scottish National Party, DUP, a lot of smaller parties and even most independents seem to be only in the worst half. And the worst? George Galloway (Respect)!
Very surprising.
One of Brown’s more interesting original concepts was to link attendance to payment of an allowance. Instead of an allowance it should be salary.
If the Commons sits for 180 days a year, then they would receive 1/180th for each day they turn up and sit in the chamber for a debate.
While this won’t stop the ‘SISO’ (sign-in, slope-off) culture from developing as in the EU Parliament, it will cut the pay of those who rarely attend and those who sit in more than one assembly as they can’t be in two places at once!
Sitting here in the South of France I’m watching events at home with a total sense of disbelief.
How have things snowballed(’scuse the pub)so quickly ?
Of xourse there should be a general election immediately.There’s no other choice is there ?
While I believe the speaker should go for letting the (non) honourable MP’s break the rules on expenses, and indeed the rules have been broken; the lower house should take stock of the voice of the common man and all expenses which are deemed non appropriate (by a committee of lay people) to the current rules should be paid back.
I would be inclined to substitute “committee of lay people” with “the police”.
I have seen the reactions such as those by Cameron too many times. Whenever a scandal reaches the press Leaders puff out there chests and shout about tough action and then wait for the story to go away. A week is a long time in politics as Harold is attributed to have said.
The MPs shown to have been breaking the rules ie that all expense claims should be wholly necessary for carrying out the job of an MP are claiming their claims are within the rules because they were allowed by the committees. We can all see these claims are not wholly necessary for carrying out the job.
Brown says any one breaking the rules will be deselected. We will see he will interpret the rules in the same way the MPs are, as will Cameron thus they will get away with it. Cameron and Osbourne are claming amongst the largest interst relief on their mortgages.Those committing clear fraud eg claiming for mortgage interest where no mortgage exists will be deselected they should also be arrested and prosecuted but these are a very small number. It will then be left to the electorate to take necessary action and most will stay at home.
If we did have a committee of lay people as you suggest most would be out.
I’m not fond of my own MP but she hasn’t (I understand) abused her expenses claims worth mentioning, and although I disagree with her politically on most matters, I feel the time to address her suitability for the job remains a general election.
I’ve seen the way recalls work in the US, and as tempting as the concept is under the current circumstances, don’t want it to be applied to the UK. If an MP has committed a criminal offence they should be tried, and if they’re found guilty only then removed from their position.
I hope there isn’t a general election soon – the atmosphere is all wrong and would lead to numerous ill-considered choices over otherwise good candidates. However I wouldn’t be surprised to see one occur soon.
I think it’s correct that there is a sense of constitutional crisis. The lack of confidence in politics as a result of the MPs expenses revelations is such that it cannot simply be washed out in the normal spin cycle.
Concrete action needs to be taken to restore credibility, and the only proper way to do this is to put new faces in key roles. The problem is that one or two changes may not be enough to assuage cynical voters. People are battle-weary following the government’s inability to take action against bankers who retained their bonuses in spite of an economic meltdown they largely contributed to.
So a little action here will certainly not go a long way. The government will have to show that it is serious about changing things, and perhaps the only way of doing that will be to test their mandate in an election?
I’m not sure that an immediate election would necessarily fix things. We the general public have a right to be outraged by the behaviour of some of our politicians, but at the end of the day WE should therefore consider standing for election ourselves and conduct ourselves in the manner we expect.
I hate hearing how enthusiastic new MP’s are silenced and required to tow the party line, brainwashed into the ‘doing things the way of tradition’ etc and end up losing their individuality, learning how to avoid questions in interviews and so on. We need a new breed.
Therefore there must be time given to encourage this new generation.Maybe proportional representation, maybe a realignment of constituencies, reducing the numbers etc etc.could all happen at the same time. But first and foremost, those in postions of trust who saw fit to ‘cheat’ the system must face the consequencies. Just like they would expect us to do if we have behaved this way. A shake up PLEASE.
If it wasn’t for the fact that I wouldn’t really wish this important yet stressful job on anyone – I would suggest your good self as a new Speaker, Jon.
And we would all demand that the new Speaker wear transparent tights this time – no more hidden secrets!
The great train robbers got 30 years for stealing a million pounds.,what would this lot get
We currently have a Scottish Parliament and Secretary of Scotland
Welsh Assembly and Secretary of State for Wales
Northern Ireland Stormont Parlimanent and Secretary of State for Northern Ireland
Notice there is no mention of England. Nobody speaks for and this must change. We need a Scretary of State for England and a devolved English Parliament. The English are currently second class citizens in our constitutional settlement and this must end.
I think the implications of a fully federalised UK, with an English parliament operating on principles outlined by morph366@11:22am should be investigated ASAP.
This whole debacle provides possibly the best opportunity for a generation or more to implement proper electoral change and re-engage and re-energise the people if this country.
It must now be obvious to the most cloistered lobby correspondent that it is not the voters who are apathetic and disinterested in politics, but our elected ‘representatives’.
I’ve never been too fond of my own MP so i really couldn’t pass judgement on his very high expenses as no matter what they are i’d be negative about it anyway.
I feel a little sorry for the speaker, i agree he didn’t do his job right and he probably should be stepping down – but that doesn’t change the fact that its still the MPs who pushed the rules to the limit!! Also, its not like its new, they’ve been getting away with this expenses rubbish for decades and how many speakers have there been?!
I agree with the first two comments on this thread, an election first and foremost then overhaul the whole damn system.
You cannot let this guy (the speaker) take the flack for the whole system. How many heads will it take to sort this mess out??? Truth is it is not heads that need to go it is the institutions. People should not settle for any less!
RADICAL REFORM – Let us call for a system that we actually want!!! I am sure that politicians are clever enough to collect five of the most desired systems, list them on a peace of paper, thus allowing us to vote in the system of our choice. Then we can get down to who should run it.
I fully agree. Is giving up the speaker as a sacrifice intended to quell public anger? If so it is a naive move.
Past claims should be reviewed and MPs who have shown bad judgement should be forced to pay money back and/or stand down. There then need to be interim changes agreed by the party leaders or enforced by the Commons Authority while we wait for the results of Christopher Kelly’s commission, which the parties should commit to implementing in full.
Cameron’s call for an immediate election is party politics par excellence, and a distraction from resolving the main issue, which is fixing the rotten system that has been allowed to build up in lieu of paying MPs a fair and honest salary. Fix this and the rest will follow.
I have been persuaded that the Speaker should resign in these exceptional circumstances. My initial reaction was that it was MPs diverting attention from themselves, but now I think Parliament would benefit from a Modernising/Reforming Speaker rather than a tainted traditionalist.
Parliament should never have reached this stage though. It is disgraceful that they haven’t been able to sort themselves out beforehand, because MPs were too busy looking after their own interests and feathering their own nests.
The right thing to do, bearing in mind that this is supposedly the “Mother of All Parliaments”, is dissolve Parliament now that it has claimed the head of the Speaker. Having done that, MP’s really ought to do the decent thing and put themselves up for re-election – particularly those who publically called for the Head of the Speaker – including Nick Clegg..
Now there are some issues with an election. Parties clearly need time to collect themselves together and re-select MPs if necessary..
So dissolve Parliament today and have the election in September. The country can be run on a care and maintenance basis for a while, and Parliament will be in recess for a lot of that time anyway.
If Gordon does dissolve Parliament, I’ll give him an enormous amount of respect for doing the right thing, i.e. letting democracy sort itself out. That’s the key phrase. Democracy should be allowed to sort itself in the Mother of All Parliaments
If Gordon wins the election,so be it. I’ll respect that result and do my bit to support reform.
And while we are at it, can we please reform the monarchy and break the link with the Church of England. We might as well get the whole lot done while we’re at it.
On thing at a time. We can’t have constitutional crisis evolve into constitutional meltdown, can we… ?!!!
Amen to that ;^). Seriously …the country needs to be brought into the 21st century with a written constitution, proper democratic checks and balances, more frequent elections, and a balanced Union (or break it up *properly*). A thorough redrawing. Dump the Monarchy etc? Sure. Go for it. Imagine, as it will be, Charles or William `concerned about MPs spending’ and not everyone’s favourite `granny’. Ha.
Let’s have an election- the end of the ‘dry rot parliament’
Dissolve Government and have an election within the next two months.
Send in the fraud squad and lock up any criminals.
Things are really getting out of hand an election is now necessary to break this cycle of distrust. Keep the independant HOL they are sometimes the only thing stopping disasterous policies from being made law.
Early election asap.
We should also have a vote of no confidence with our own MPs
There needs to be a General Election. Under a PR voting system. The main parties are morally, and in some cases financially, bankrupt. It’s time to break the power of the political monoliths and give new voices a chance to shape this country.
Forget about the Speaker. It’s time to let the people speak in a General Election.
We now have two leaders calling for an early election, it seems Alex Salmond has joined the club.
It’s the only solution if the UK Parliament is going to get itself back on the right road quickly, and draw a line under all this. Procrastination will only make matters worse.
I think everyone understands that expenses have an implicit grey area that relies on the goodwill of the spender, and that the odd transgression into that area is human nature.
However, what has happened here is straightforward and unapologetic theft.
Those people who are prepared to steal from the rest of us are not fit to represent us and should go. They should also face criminal prosecution.
Those who say the “rules are at fault” are being fatuous. There’s no guideline preventing you from walking over the edge of a cliff, yet somehow good sense prevails in that area, and it should reasonably be expected to prevail in others.
Matters have come to a pretty pass when a former Minister stands down in order to spend more time with his moat.
If Hogg is announcing his intention to stand down today, I guess he knows an election is imminent.
I haven’t voted Labour since 1997, though previously a committed supporter.
An election now would undoubtedly get rid of my MP, that tireless exponent of bad taste and worse judgement, Sion Simon – but what would it solve? We need a Hercules to clean out these Augean stables first. Someone whose integrity is beyond question would obviously be required, but that seems in short supply – though Lady Helena Kennedy springs to mind at once. An election now would I fear let in too many of the BNP, by way of knee-jerk reaction
When there’s a General Election will the people have the good sense to elect Independent candidates? Thumbs up if you think ‘yes’ and down for ‘no’.
Minister = 5′ 10″ tall, Moat = 6′ 10″ deep. I hope the moat’s full and the former Minister is standing in it.
The speaker should go but not as a scapegoat. I think David Cameron is playing politics and Labour gave us FOI, a significant step forward in disclosure. However I do feel that all MPs need to face the voters but am not convinced by PR and I think we need to reform first and vote when we have all the information, not in the heat of the moment. Democracy fails when there is no real choice. Dissolve government and have a cooling off period. On a bright note out of this calamity there could be an opportunity to genuinely reengage people in politics. They say you get the government you deserve – man in the mirror time for us all is not a bad thing for our country.
Is it me or has no one asserted a simple fact about this whole sorry affair. That we are now at a time of great change in the history of our nation and all reform must be and should be for the people and in many ways laid out by the people.
This has all come about because of the expenses scandal, yet there’s far more issues which need to be reformed for our nation to move forward in any meaningful way. Over the past two decades we have fought a war on falsehoods, introduced university fee’s which has left a whole generation in massive debt. The people were not listened to, nor consulted on these issues and highlighted the broken democracy we live in.
We have bailed out the banks for billions, yet not one single penny or word into reforming the problem of personal debt in the nation (which will keep the recession going on and on)
This situation has come about because those in power have little or no real fear of the populous and any reforms must make MPs respect the views of the people regardless of there own self belief. Until these fundamental issues within our national are resolved we will keep going back to the same old problem.
The people aren’t listen to and that MPs have no regard for them
i agree, the last time the government feared public opinion to this extent was probably after WW2. if they had known then what we know now, i,m sure they would not have been fobbed off with the welfare state! we pay their wages, they are our employees. everything they do in the execution of their jobs should be open to public scrutiny.
Hi Jon,
Am I correct in assuming Jeremy Corbyn MP only takes a salary equivalent to the National Minimum wage? If that’s true, perhaps our yardstick should be:
1. MP lives in the constituency and is seen to be active.
2. MP is only paid the National Minimum wage (if Corbyn can survive on it, so can others.)
3. No 2nd Home – use a hotel or do what I did each day for 12 months – up at 4.30 a.m. to London and home to Bristol late at night.
4. No 2nd job.
5. All expenses claimed fully supported by receipts and in the public domain.
6. MP retires at the end of 2 terms of office.
Why should anyone (apart from the local Tory selection committee) in my constituency be bothered to be interested in politics? It can make no earthly difference how I vote since it’s an exceedingly safe Tory seat.
Many others around the country are in the same situation. These are the Rotten Boroughs of our age.
This must change.
I’m not sure that an instant election would solve the problem. True, it would give people the chance to throw out an MP who has milked the system but who would you replace him/her with?
All the candidates at the next election are going to say they will stick to the spirit of the rules and be whiter than white – this lot would have if asked last time.
We need root and branch change – then an election.
Let’s use this crisis to create something more democratic, where our MPs represent their constituents and not just their party and where outside interests mean interest in what’s good for the area they represent and not their own pockets.
One of the most sickening parts of this whole fiasco is to watch the leaders trying to score political points off each other to gain an advantage, rather than get together and sort it out.
How right you are!! This is exactly why I call for change. I wished more people would do so also. Something tells me they will throw out a few ‘lambs to slaughter’ then proceed to reshape things just they way they like it and that will be the end of that.
Let us continue in our plight until the changes happen.
My initial reaction is to have an election,but my worry is that if people like me who have voted all their lives, who are reasonably au fait with the democratic and political process stop voting it may be a let-in for the more extreme parties to get a foot in. Perhaps anyone found to have abused the expenses system should be deselected immediately and then some serious discussion about expenses chaired by an independant committee should be held before the recess,so the electorate know where they stand. A snap election will not solve the problem of greed and hubris.
so speaker martin has decided to do the right thing and resign, i get the feeling that some MPs think this will detract from their own wrongdoings, they still don’t seem to grasp the complete rage and contempt we the people have for them so i would like to draw attention to a demonstration that has been organised for Sat 23rd May, meeting at 12 noon at parliament square by the cromwell statue, hope some of you that have been commenting on here will be able to attend and show these (dis)honourables thats its not just the media out to get them and that speaker martins resignation should be just the beginning
Time for an English parliament.
This would solve a multitude of problems, save a fortune and at last give the English the recognition and representation they deserve.
Better still – home rule for England.
This should be just the beginning, and not a smoke screen to hide events.
Britain has epitomised corruption from top to bottom and, while the world looks on. From the ashes of union jack should rise a force that’ll be accountable, transparent and honest but, only if the wealthy vested interest scum, are kept out of its shaping. Britain was once a beacon of light in the world, but over the last 40 years it’s become the darkness that puts out light. Short of a revolution by force, time is now to journey forth and extract the rot then build a impenetrable system that will once again make Britain respected.
What exciting times. The last year must have been a great period to work in TV news? Often I find myself wishing that you were on air more often because it is Ch4 News that I want to turn to at moments like this (the US Presidential inauguration was another big time when I felt that way), rather than BBC or Sky. Maybe that will happen eventually online?
My MP doesn’t seem to have been on the fiddle. However, one does have to wonder where some of the money claimed finally ends up. I would guess sometimes given to friends or relatives who run businesses. There is lots of potential there for inflated receipts and other dodgy deals.
Here in the Islington North constituency (Finsbury Park, Upper Holloway areas), our MP, Jeremy Corbyn, is untainted by this scandal. He has claimed NO extraordinary expenses in the past seven years. At constituency level, then, this is none of our business.
Jeremy Corbyn was never very popular with the New Labour-meisters. He is far too … Labour.
Having lived through Conservative rule before, I greatly fear the outcome of the next General Election and certainly wouldn’t call for it now unless I were ready to leave the country. I have, though, started planning my remove.
We need a whole new political system. All MPs are guilty who have not campaigned for change. Instead of a recess this summer there should be open debates with the general public as to what system we require and would trust. Then in the autumn call a general election and have the new parliament put into effect our new system. The resignation of the speaker is not enough or the changes David Cameron has insisted his party follow. The betrayal of the general publics trust can only be re-instated with what we require to be done, not with the rules the MPs think need to be followed!
An election now has a number of problems, firstly we don’t have enough details. I think all expenses need to be fully published, clearly stating exactly what was paid for on each submitted receipt. Only then can we see desperate the greedy and slipshod from the plain criminal and any possible criminal activities fully investigated. Without doubt some of the claims made in the Telegraph will turn out to be false, simply because not all the evidence is out.
Secondly, if the issue of the expense system is worth an election, then the majority of MPs need to go. If Michael Martin has to go because he oversaw and tried to defend the status quo , the majority of MPs are tarnished. A lot of MPs have tried to claim that they are honest, personally didn’t fiddle claims, so shouldn’t be tarred with the same brush. However, only MPs had the power to maintain the system, only they had the ability to change the system and if the majority had wanted it changed, they could have replaced it.
Finally, public anger against the main parties means that an election would result in some very unpleasant people gaining power, politics of anger tends to have a rather bad outcome.
The Channel 4 News site asks whether Mr Speaker’s resignation will ‘draw a line under’ this whole debacle.
Of course it shouldn’t. If it does, then we will know that he has been used as the fall guy. He has a lot to answer for, but were it not for the fact that he appears to have tried to block a Freedom of Information request about these expenses I would say his departure is not justified. After all the previous speaker to leave office in this way was accused of very serious crimes and this can hardly be said of Michael Martin.
To me this is part of a cultural development: it is never the fault of the person who actually committed the crime or misdemeanour, but someone else’s. It is now endemic, from football teams (sack the manager when you fail to win enough matched) via tragedies such as child neglect or worse (blame social workers et al and not the person who was really in charge), to these rather daft politicans blaming the speaker for a system which they helped put in place and then abused. I worry that those in parliament are so stupid as to think they can get away with this rule-bending.
Ever since Margaret Thatcher encouraged ndividualism over community co-operation – and she did not initiate this, as was shown in Adam Curtis’s excellent TV series ‘The Century of the Self’ – the trend is towards an unspoken mantra of ‘the world owes me a living’. Until this changes, and perhaps it will with a deep recession, city fat-cats will get their bonuses and politicians their expenses.
The pity is that none of the main political parties has any inkling of what may be wrong.
1979 all over again .Whoever has to sort out the mess this time will make Mrs Thatcher look like a pussy cat in making tough decisions.
I’m sure it hasn’t escaped everyone’s notice that it is distinctly possible that the so called “Lords” have been feathering their nests and bending the rules on allowances ( or worse) in a similar fashion to the Commons. We the tax-payers/ voters at least have the final say on whether MPs have earned the right to make laws on our behalf. We have no such power with the House of Lords. A decisive argument, I would have thought ,against the existence of any unelected chamber and a reason for its immediate abolition.
Very well put. I totally agree!
I saw on an earlier news report that it was probable that Michael Martin would be elevated to the Lords – no doubt as part of a deal for his departure? How can this be justified?
I agree that John Snow should be the next Speaker of the Commons.However, back to reality,we are in a and crisis, parliament should be dissolved I would respect Gordon Brown if he did this as soon as possible.We should have a general election early in the autumn when things have calmed down a little. It is adisgrace that Hazel Blears remains in the cabinet despite tax evasion to the tune of £ 13,000.which she has admitted.The fact that Gordon Brown did not remove her from office straight away demostrates clearly his indifference to her offence.Please John if you do get an interview with the prime minister tell him that we do not want tax evaders in the cabinet .Thanks. Mollie
also ask him why his ministers don’t buy their own food but expect taxpayers to pay for it. only parliament in the world which does this.
Mollie you might have your wish at 5:30pm
we need a system like the swedes and danes. let them run westminster. full FOI and gaol for crooks. what a sad, sad country we have become. mr. beans bossed by pigs. media knew about all this for years. but didn’t want to rock the boat. including channel 4.
This fiddling is going on at every level. Also the various public-private arrangements have made it much easier to filter public money out into private pockets. To give just one example that I am personally aware of… A local charity is paid by the local NHS trust to provide various services which, years ago, the NHS itself would have just provided. When you look more closely, you find that someone high up at the NHS trust is the partner of someone at the charity. What a coincidence.
Then there are the various businesses and individuals who are paid for services provided to the charity. What are the connections there? Some of those businesses may even have links with local politicians. So, in the end, some of the money may actually end up in party coffers, through donations from the ‘grateful’ businesses. The trail is so complicated it is almost impossible to follow.
A few weeks ago a Commons Committee discussed executive pay (Polly Toynbee was a witness). One issue highlighted was the lack of transparency when a private business runs public services. Commercial confidentiality and the like can be used to keep things secret. And even when it is a company that gets 100% of its work from the government (companies working on the Olympics site were given as an example).
So no Michael Martin’s resignation should not be the end of this. We need complete transparency wherever public money goes. It should be the norm and there should be a very good reason for details not being in the public domain.
nice collection of comments here guys – We, The People have a voice and that voice has been actively ignored by the politicos and government agencies fordecades, as some of you (in fact most of you) seem to agree – if We, The People ever had a voice to start with!!!
175 years ago, The Tolpuddle Martyrs forced change on the government of the day and We, The People got Union representation for the first time!
175 years on, nothing much has changed except that Mrs Thatcher and her government of the day destroyed union representation with any real power for us, so we need a new Tolpuddle Rebellion to force change on this government that goes a lot deeper and more fundamental than changing The Speaker!
I think and trust the ‘Seeds of Reform’ are starting to sprout but nothing has fundamentally changed until this Parliament as a whole resigns and forces a General Election with ‘fundamental reform of the way we govern ourselves’ as the number one manifesto pledge!!!
David Cameron and all the other MP’s and Lords of both houses are all lying when they say it’s on Gorden Brown’s shoulders to call for a general electiion:-
If ALL the Tories, LibDems, Greens and ‘rebellious’ Labour backbenchers ALL resigned then we have the next best thing to a General ELction and Gordon would be named and shamed as the leader of an obsolete and frankly bankrupt government system!!!
All these MP’s and Lords could force change today if they all had the courage and commitment (as David Davis showed during his recent resignation and re-election) – at least two-thirds of both houses would have to be re-elected in by-elections and people like Jackie Smith and Jack Straw would not be able to maintain their posts if the rest of the Houses all resigned!!!
It would certainly show some spine if all these ‘opposition’ MP’s resigned and held themselves accountable to their constituents and the electorate as a whole!!!
Irrespective if they wrote dodgy expenses claims or not – it would certainly prove to me that some MP’s are not cowards, thieves or liars!!!
Speaker Martin gone. Hoorah! Now let this be the oportunity for a root and branch modernisation. Dump the ridiculous costumes. powdered wigs, ermine robes, ludicrous titles, arcane procedures, THE LOT.
Let’s have a fully elected ‘Senate’ Second Chamber and a ‘ House of Representatives ‘ Whose purpose is to represent the Electorate by means of a fair system of proportional representation with a lot more Independants.
How American! No thanks. Nothing so extreme is needed and everyone needs to calm down. Keep the traditions but simply sort out the rules so that there’s no repeat of this kind of thing.
I trust that when MPs come to elect a new Speaker, they will choose a member who is totally committed to the supremacy of Parliament.
Those who failed the “New Clause 9″ test on the evening of March 5th 2008 should automatically be excluded from this office.
Division 120 here:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200708/cmhansrd/cm080305/debtext/80305-0024.htm
New Clause 9
SUPREMACY OF PARLIAMENT
Etc
1. How much – roughly – have the ‘greedy’ MP’s overclaimed during the
last 12 months? £100k – 150k?
2. How much would it cost the tax pay annually to pay for an
‘independent body’ so oversea MP’s pay & allowances? Taking into
account THEIR pay and allowances? Office space, admin,
secretarial/civil service support, communication and committee costs
etc? Are we not just creating YET another Govt sponsored body to
which those in favour with the major parties could associate
themselves for more money! Which you Jon Snow and I as tax payers
with have to pay for? Are we not spending a a POUND to save a
SIXPENCE????
Please reply
Michael
I don’t agree that all the traditions should be swept away as a knee jerk reaction. Just the corruption. These give our Parliament character.
And I know Jon has been dragging up lately but having him sit in the Commons in knickerbockers and tights as Speaker would be a waste of a good broadcaster.
In my opinion part of the problem is the erosion of public service broadcasting. Not enough people like Jon Snow and not enough awkward programmes holding politicians to account.
Twenty years ago there would have been a World In Action expose about the BNP on ITV. Now many of their potential voters are glued to soaps and Britain’s Got Talent. Well Britain’s also got fascists and Governments over the past 20 years are to blame for the dumbing down of our television. It suited their purposes then but now they don’t like the poorly-informed population that is the result.
Government is representative of the public view NOT anything to do wiv Supremacy – I would add a new clause to the Parliamentary Act:-
The View of the electorate is above the Supremacy of Parliament!!!
Brown’s new criterium for standing as Labour MP in the next election: does that include the rule that expenses claimed must be beyond reproach?
They all need resigning……..from all parties……..especially Dave Cameron
An early election means more of the same.
Since our parliament no longer has real Democratic powers, why do we need yet another layer of beaurocratic takers and shysters to fleece us ?
I know everyone wants an election. The problem with that is all you will wind up doing is giving MPs 5 years to wait for the anger to dissipate and not change things in a changing them kind of way. I feel sorry for the speaker on a personnel level because he has been forced out as a sacrificial lamb (all the way to the house of lords by the look of things). He’s no worse than any other MP but then he’s no better.
People say he was responsible for over seeing MPs expenses. He wasn’t. Each individual MP was responsible for there own claims which was over seen by a committee of, you guessed it, MPs.
We are now being told that any MP who is seen to have made a unreasonable claim will be forced to pay the money back. Not good enough. MPs need to have it spelled out to them that its not the monetary value of the claims, it’s the abuse of trust and attempts to hide it that have infuriated people. If there is enough evidence to make them pay back the money then there enough evidence to have them expelled from parliament.
I totally agree. But £s a headline make…
I am listening to Brown blaming “the system” time after time. He gets more nauseating by the minute with his evasiveness and fobbing off of questions.
Does he think people are going to fall for this. He will just infuriate them more. There is nothing wrong with the system, it is the dishonest crooks abusing it that are the problem.
The lot of them should be kicked out now.
We haven’t heard what our MP Peter Hain has claimed for yet. It would be interesting on past experience
Just heard Gordon Brown’s call for an end to MPs’ self-regulation of their finances and the establishment of an independent body to oversee same.
On this narrow point alone, it’s the people that must decide this issue, not an appointed ‘independent’ body (the most overused of oxymorons). Use the media to appeal for suggestions, and trusted persons (suggestions to follow) to oversee a new policy. But there must be no increase in MPs salaries, as the blogs and news broadcasts indicate.
As demonstrated by Ms Harman’s piece in yesterday’s Guardian, the political class still doesn’t understand that democracy doesn’t need them, MPs, lords or quangoistas. To the contrary: we can do democracy ourselves.
Its ok to for the parties to talk about greater transparency, the devil is detail!
I’d like to see what the MP votes on so voters can hold them to task if they dont represent the electorate.
Regarding living arrangements and expense. We need a large facility close to Westminster to house and provide all the needs an MP would need whilst on Govt business in London then expenses can be kept to normal things like travel and office equipment.
Will we see this sort of common sense to restore voters confidence, I doubt it very much!
Isn’t this fraud?
Too many times someone resigns and we are to accept that along with the “rules will be tougher” statement. We then find that only does the resignee get a nice-payoff or another well paid job, but more stealthier antics are brought to light.
I assume all those involved will be prosecuted for their acts, inclusive of paying back the claims towards the real reasons we pay taxes .. i.e. health, education, policing.
Will there be an independent report by a third party into not only the expenses of the house of commons but also the house of lords?
Is it also now time the general public get visibility of exactly how taxes are spent, as it seems apparent they simply funding an expenses slush fund in high proportion.
I also feel that those that are found to be unethical with their expenses should be named and shamed, particularly for conducting such activities when the rest of the population are in such financial turmoil!
Jon, with regards to the “yardstick” for whether an MP should stay or go. the current measures put forward by the prime minister and others, as to the potential deselections are unacceptable.
Every MP has taken the expenses as a bonus to their salaries. An accepted norm with the institution that provided an external deniability for any public scrutiny through the fees office.
This is by any measure, at least an unconscious corruption of a wages system, that has now become conscious. The end result is that any MP who has used the expenses system is guilty of corrupt behaviour and benefit.
Every MP should repay all expenses claimed apart from the bona fide salaries for admin staff.
A local re-selection process should start in every constituancy, that gives both the incumbent MP and any local competition the opportunity to debate fitness for selection.
Then a general election for the nation to decide on the party “fit for purpose” to govern.
I would like to nominate my teddybear as the next speaker.
The only way to sort this mess out is to call a general election now and let the people have their say.
Sign the petition to make this happen: http://www.callageneralelection.org.uk
How much will Micheal Martin getb in any form of severance pay and what will his pension be – is that affected by his resignation.
Missed the end of your interview with Alex Salmond because – I kid you not – the phone rang and a recorded voice said: “This is Dundee Labour Party – we are interested to know how you
will be voting – please press these following buttons on the keytone pad” at which point I slammed the bloody phone down and ran back down the stairs to catch the rest of Salmond!
NB Dundee West is a Labour/SNP marginal and they must be worried.
An interesting PM’s press conference in which Mr Brown came close to an expression of no confidence in at least one member of his own cabinet.
Of course reforms are needed, but doesn;t Mr Brown realise that the public have absolutely no confidence in this Parliament?
His comments encouraging MPs to engage with their constituents were admirable, but not enough. Mr Brown should request a Dissolution forthwith.
Earlier TV reports indicated that Michael Martin would, on retirement, be elevated to the Lords – an absolute travesty and disgrace, and obviously as part of a deal with the Government. Let us not forget this greedy, obdurate man, promoted far beyond his abilities, was personally responsible for the departure of long-serving members of the Speaker’s staff purely because of his feelings of social inadequacy – and wrecked their careers in the process.
Yet again politicians are not taking responsability for their actions instead of dealing with the issues of their abuse of the system they find a scape goat in an attempt to defuse public opinion. I have never bothered to vote because i never thought a party came up to my standards or hopes for england. You have let down the people of england. i will vote now in anger. It is about time that the person on the street, working, paying taxes, struggling is not abused by parliment.How dare you abuse your position?
Gordon Brown is intending to de-select any MP found to have broken the rules. As the rules let them do anything they want, this is no threat. All they will get out of this fiasco is a huge pay increase. They will be laughing all the way to the bank….again!
No let’s keep the powdered wigs and ermine robes and all that lovely stuff. That’s English and what makes us different and it’s good. Just root out the corruption.
Just 1 question. Mr Martin outlined plans for a cap on 2nd home allowances. Does that mean every MP can still claim a 2nd home allowance even if there constituency is 10/15/20 miles from Westminster?
it would seem so – from what i gather from the news mortgage interest or rent on second homes would be capped at £1,250 per month and proposals to tighten up the administration of the expenses system.
If this is their idea of reigning themselves in i despair that we’ll be no better off than before – £1,250 per month is still FAR TO MUCH – this is more than some peoples salary – i fear all those in parliament at the moment are so far removed from everyday life that they will never be any good at representing us in even a reformed parliament!!!
Which MPs if any have actually paid back their excessive claims. Many have stated they intend to but we are not getting accurate information about who has.
hahaha brilliant…mr brown ignored the call for blears to be sacked 3 times. He is all talk and needs to wake up to the fact that we dont want a tax evader in the cabinet!!!
I agree with most of your submission but PR will lead to unstable coalitions and shady deals to hold them together. It gives the power to the third party to decide which of the two it wants to put into Government while making sure it gets several plum jobs. Look at Italy and Israel.
I wonder when the prime minister will start to understand that treating the symptons doesnt cure the disease? Certainly we need radical change, and whilst I can see that externally moderating expense rules may be, at this moment in time desirable, it could also add to layers of beurocracy. The public outrage at the expenses scandal is one symptom of a much deeper issue; it has shone a bright light on the underlying fact that a fairly large proportion of those who represent us in parliament lack integrity and are primarily motivated by selfishness, greed and self serving ego with the good of the constituents coming a poor second.
This is the real issue and is why the public are baying for blood.
This scandal only adds to the other symptoms of lack of integrity, the scandal of the Gurkha’s and the RBS pension.
This lack of confidence in our parliamentary system is really a lack of confidence in the motivation, values and integrity of the individual MP’s, some of whom hold high office. simply changing the expenses system will not fix this.
in my opinion we should get rid of the whole second home idea, seeing as its hard enough trying to get a house of my own when they get one basicaly paid for them.
i think there should be appartments specificly build to home the MP’s when in london. They then wouldnt own them so will not have to claim expences on them.
Giving people a slap on the wrist is not going to sort anything, get them out and replace them with someone that actually has the common sence to sort the problems out.
Steve: Your excellent suggestion has been voiced many, many times all over British cyberspace for the past two weeks, yet no politician has commented on it.
A General Election now may be too soon. Time may be needed for people (including MP’s) to assimilate new ideas and concepts – otherwise we just get more of the same with a different colour. Problem (1) Our House of Commons is adversarial – built on a conflict instead of a search for consensus model. (2) Politicians have been socialised to evade and prevaricate. How about some who say, “I don’t know” or “OK, I changed my mind.” Cut the crap.Like ordinary people. (3) Proportional representation is a must. (4) We need to shift the media and ourselves away from the politics of personality. Parliament is serious stuff about ideas and ideology – or it should be. It’s not the Katy and Peter Show.
The expenses issue is important – and yet it’s just symptomatic of the blame-culture, the malaise and rule-bending which we see all around us everyday. I’m going to drive and use my mobile because my call is important; don’t discipline my child, he does no wrong; speed limits are for wimps and so on and so on. When we have a society which respects itself and its members, which disciplines its kids and obeys the rules even if they’re painful, then we’ll get the parliament we deserve. Until then, expect chaos, corruption and everyman for himself!
I agree a general election will need time for the assimilation of ideas and for a cool head to prevail in the process.
However I think that the oxygen of anger is in some part provided by the over controlling legislations that have become increasingly prevalent since at least the early 1990’s, and have eroded the individuals responsibilities that traditionally provide social regulation of societies. Instead they have adopted the much more simplistic model of state centric and homogeneous statutes that have the unintended consequences of alienating the populace instead of protecting.
Taken in context we see anger over expenses primarily because the moral authority of the parliamentarians who have in many diverse quarters made unpopular and individual freedom reducing laws.
These laws being based on a patriarcal system that has now been shown to have definite flaws in the integrity and vision of its protagonists.
Your suggestion of moving from a zero sum system to positive sum world is wise, but I fear too radical for this parliament.
Wouldn’t it be wonderful, if the present government actually took this opportunity to create an all party commitee (consisting ONLY of MPs who have not abused their expenses) to openly debate all that is currently wrong with this “old boys club.”
Taking the time to really listen to the PAYING PUBLIC, addressing their concerns and rebuilding our constitution from the ground up, based on transparent policies aimed at re-instating a trust that has been absent since the sixties (in my opinion).
This is not about class, constitution, reform or party preferences.
It’s about theft, embezzlement, corruption and blatant betrayal of the electorate’s trust.
It’s about long term mismanagement of the nation’s wealth and resources.
Don’t allow them to evade the issues by diverting attention to changing the system.
What will restore Electorate Confidence?
1. Let the guilty be held accountable and punishable.
2. We want a GENERAL ELECTION NOW !
The only person I see representing the true wishes of this nation is Jon Snow !
Help him to represent us . . . .
WHO WANTS A GENERAL ELECTION NOW ?
How many names can we get on this Blog?
Sir Alan Haselhurst and Frank Field are jointly tipped at 4/1 as speaker to succeed Michael Martin.
Sir Alan claimed £12k allowance for gardening bills and £142k on a second home since 2001despite having no mortgage!
Honest Frank claimed £136k in expenses in 2008 and is regarded as one of the least extravagant MPs expense-wise!
Should the election to speaker of either of the above favourites be used by parliament to signal the beginning of a new era of openness, then the message has not got across that the electorate demands not only punishment by law of those whose claims were plain illegal, and the rescinding of the rules that allowed immorally large payments in mortgage tax relief and other allowances to be claimed by even those MPs regarded as having been most frugal in their behaviour.
Sources quote the top spenders to include Liam Byrne and Jaqui Smith, claiming respectively £478k and £435k between 2005-08.
The ten most ‘frugal’ (!) MPs claimed between £271k and £183k during 2005-08, and included Dennis Skinner (!), Alan Williams and David Winnick.
Thus, even those of the old labour mould, who many traditional Labour voters have regarded as having retained some socialist principles, have been unable to resist the Westminster trough.
How the purging of our utterly corrupt system of governance is to be brought about within an electoral framework itself skewed to suit the ends of the already elected, I leave to wiser heads.
However, I sincerely hope that our normally supine electorate do not allow their present anger to be dissipated by token displays of outrage and faux minor disciplinary measures on the part of the parliamentary parties.
Beautifully put, Bert. Might I suggest copying and pasting into e-mails similar expressions of public displeasure with the request to ‘pass it around’? That might keep the momentum going.
Sorry if such comments are beginning to sound a little trite but it has to be said: They STILL don’t get it, do they? The simple fact that Hazel Blears continues to preside at Big G’s right hand is all the proof we need. If the PM had really understood the message expressed so clearly by WE, THE PEOPLE, he’d have put his toe to Blears’ backside two weeks ago…no messing – OUT! But no, they’re still being allowed to assume the position of ruler rather than that of servant.
I obviously have not heard or read all the comments on the present expenses row in the Commons.However I have yet to hear or read mention of “The Code of Conduct for Members of Parliament”. This was approved by the House of Commons on 19th July 1996. It can be found on http://www.parliament.uk under MPs, Lords and Offices.
Apart from laying emphasis on the MP’s Oath of Allegiance to the Queen, that they had a duty to be faithful and bear true allegaince to Her Majesty, it says that Members have a duty to uphold the law, and to act on all occasions in accordance with the public trust placed in them. Under the General Priciples of Conduct at Section IV it states as the first principle, and please do not laugh, “Selflessness. Holders of public office should take decisions solely in terms of the public interest. They should not do so in order to gain financial or other material benefits for themselves, their family or their friends.
The remaining General Principles listed are, as might be expected, Integrity, Objectivity, Accountability, Open-ness, Honesty and Leadership. Please do not laugh. This is meant to be serious!!
I have also had correspondence with the Privy Council Office asking for a definition of the epithet Right Honourable as it is applied to Privy Councillors. I asked if it merely was to indicate that the person was a PC or did it indicate the standard of behaviour to be expected of a PC. The Office replied that they could not give me a definition. DB.
General Election first ! ! !
Don’t allow the corrupt to decide future change !
I’ll personally storm the House of Lords if Hazel Blears ever gets in there. She looks more and more like Ronald McDonald every day. Which I believe is a real indication of her future career path.
But, seriously, is this why Brown is so reluctant to take action? So his chums won’t miss out on peerages and a meal ticket for the rest of their days?
Also Michael Martin was hoping to pass his Glasgow seat down to his son? What on earth? Hereditary ’safe’ Labour seats in the House of Commons now?
Michael Martin deserved to go purely on the basis of his outburst last week.
Finally Jon, the best moment of tonight’s show was when you mentioned food expenses to Alan Salmond.
Strange times. Does Martin’s ousting represent the death of Old or New Labour? This whole government now feels like an ugly, mutual death-grip.
A great thing, but ultimately broken by its early compromises.
I think it is the right time to emphasize the nature of British Democracy and what needs to change if we are ever going to be able to call it a true democracy. Just changing the culture of Parliament and reform of expenses is not going to get us anywhere with regard to honest and rational governance.
Facts:
At least since 1945 no British Government has been elected with a majority of all the votes cast:
Date of election Winning Party % Vote cast % Parliament %Turnout
Thu 5th July 1945 Labour 48.1 62 72.6
Thu 23rd Feb 1950 Labour 46.2 50 83.6
Thu 25th Oct 1951 Tory 48 51 81.9
Thu 26th May 1955 Tory 49.7 55 76.8
Thu 8th Oct 1959 Tory 49.3 58 78.7
Thu 15th Oct 1964 Labour 44.1 50 77.1
Thu 31st Mar 1966 Labour 47.6 58 75.8
Thu 18th June 1970 Tory 46.0 52 72.0
Thu 28th Feb 1974 Labour minority Gov 37.2 47 78.8
Thu 10th Oct 1974 Labour 39.3 50 72.8
Thu 3rd May 1979 Tory 43.9 53 76.0
Thu 9th June 1983 Tory 42.4 61 72.7
Thu 11th June 1987 Tory 42.2 58 75.3
Thu 9th April 1992 Tory 41.9 52 77.7
Thu 1st May 1997 Labour 43.2 63 71.3
Thu 7th June 2001 Labour 40.7 63 59.4
Thu 5th May 2005 Labour 35.2 55 61.4
You will notice that even the Blair Government with the thumping majority was elected with only 43.2 % of the votes cast out of a total of 71.3 % turnout!
Once a government has been elected, the party of government then rules with the Prime Minister deciding how the MPs will vote. On all important matters there is 3-line whip and any member of Parliament who dares to vote against the wishes of the PM will have to face sanctions.
So, first of all we have a government elected by a MINORITY OF VOTES CAST and then the MPs vote as the PM directs them.
Is it democracy?
To me it seems like THE DICTATORSHIP OF A MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT NOT ELECTED BY THE MAJORITY OF VOTERS.
The majority of voters never see a government of those they voted for.
Unfortunately the table doesn’t come out as very readable when posted as a comment. If you agree with the sentiment perhaps you would format it and upload.
You might like to know a little known fact. It is a very strange thing but in British Politics the Prime Minister is as responsible to the cabinet as they are to him. I am not sure how it works in practice. I imagine its the same as a board of directors and the chief executive of a company. Maybe that’s why Prime Ministers have to ask for their resignations rather than just sacking Ministers.
Michael Martin should not have resigned because this makes matters worse – voters see him as an escape goat. If party leaders cannot lead and cannot take responsibility for their own MPs, and MPs cannot help themselves from keeping their noses out of the trough, this reflects badly and the electorate will abstain or make protest votes to elect non Conservative, Labour and Liberal MPs. I would hate to become an MP – they appear to loose all sight of how people live and think in the real world.
Why has there been no listing of Tony Blair’s claims whilst in office? This could make interesting reading.
On a different blog I posted that the most irritating thing about this whole affair was the thought that there would be some MP sitting in a bar somewhere blaming the freedom of information act for the current crisis.
I was wrong. The most irritating thing about this whole affair was the MP who went on Channel 4 news and blamed the freedom of information act for this whole crisis. The one who was being interviewed with two other people by Jon Snow. I assume he meant the publishing of expenses under the freedom of information act when he said “we’ve known this was coming for 4 years, we should have been better prepared” Not “we should have had a better expenses system with more safe guards” or “we should have shown better judgement” or “we should have kept a closer eye on our colleagues, maybe even had a system where we could report our concerns”. I’m afraid this is the mentality that has to be stamped out of politics.
On the off chance that any MP reads this posting. Try to grasp the idea that the freedom of information act is a good thing. The Daily Telegraph is not evil for publishing MPs expenses .The bad thing is not that MPs have been caught out; it’s that they were doing these things in the first place.
VANDA ROSEN:
“Why has there been no listing of Tony Blair’s claims whilst in office? This could make interesting reading.”
Vanda – See the link below to see why our late lamented leader’s detaiols haven’t come out! You couldn’t make itn up, could you?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3953909.ece
Having been totally disgusted at the way our elected representatives have treated us,the electorate, with utter contempt, I have a few suggestions for future” would be” M.P.s
Those who wish to serve the public should first complete a year of community service, assisting children’s social workers, spending time as a ward assistant or hospital porter, helping in an old people’s home and visiting homeless hostels. Perhaps they would then have some idea about the things they legislate about. If they cannot afford to do this, they can take out a loan, interest free, to pay back out of future earnings. I might then have some faith in the type of M.P.’s we would get.
Incidentally, I once watched as a shoplifter was arrested for stealing a jar of coffee and a packet of cheese. She offered to pay for them, but was still charged.
For the purposes of their jobs, I suggest that MPs should be housed in their “second homes” only in local authority housing and, where necessary, given the standard allowances for cheap used furniture that anybody else gets in such housing. No more paying MPs mortgage interest out of taxes, and then allowing them to make profits on property we’ve paid for!
And, just what’s so wrong with a basic salary that’s almost 3 times the natonal average and a pension fund (c. £50,000 p.a.) that most can only dream of?
I would like to take Caroline’s suggestion further. There are plenty of local authority HIGH RISE FLATS in London.
Let the MPs live in the conditions they consider fit for the masses!
I was about to reply to Mike saying it is ’scapegoat’ not ‘escape goat’ but then I noticed in my last comment I referred to ‘Alan’ Salmond instead of Alex. That’ll teach me.
I was wondering today about who the new pasty of the house would be?
This got me thinking….
Is this time to elect someone that would put the fear of God in to them? – How about Jeremy Paxman as the new House speaker?
Would they dare cross him?
“Order Order the right honourable gentleman MUST answer the question”! would take on a whole new meaning!
We have not seen the last of this, I would lay a 10 shillings wager that ultimately this will take Gordon’s scalp too
I’ve started a ‘Paxman in the House’ petition on the Downing street web site
Elections or civil unrest.
Could Channel 4 check out whether Hazel Blears successfully deceived us all?
After watching her recent public cheque-waving gesture, where she stated she was paying the “Inland Revenue” £13,332 in Capital Gains Tax – even though she was not liable – I contacted my local HMRC Capital Gains Tax Specialist to ask how such a non-liable payment would be processed, if I made one.
I was told – after being queried why I would do such a thing – that a payment made against a non-existent liability would simply be credited to my personal tax account, and be offset against any future tax liability.
In other words Ms Blears £13,332 “payment” (and is there any evidence such a payment was actually made?) is simply an advance payment of her future income tax – which she would have had to pay anyway – and is not a Capital Gains Tax payment at all!
Thus, the public will have been deceived into thinking SHE has paid the tax, and is £13,332 out of pocket, when – in reality – she will be no worse off and it is the public who have lost out!
I think such a seeming deceit should be brought to the attention of the public.
I agree, transparency is CRUCIAL and the independent body that oversees all these allegations should include police and judges, who have untarnished reputations. A general election is important but not before there has been a full cleanout and new people given the chance to talk to their voting public and gain some trust. How stupid to only have the same lot to vote for, they would assume ANY majority authorises future behaviours.
What a society, senior Bankers get obscene bonuses and if the bank fails are allowed to “retire” on inflated pensions with Ministers knowledge and tacit acceptance.
Ministers, some of whom have shady pasts are elevated to the House of Lords (at least one via the European Parliament)
Members of the Lords are caught trying to obtain money in exchange for using their influence to sway the lawmakers.
We need a radical shake-up of politics in our country and I would support a General Election, now and also an elected Second Chamber.
Gordon Brown is trying to convince us that reforming the system and taking the control of their pay and expenses from MPs is enough.
He is wrong.
The system did not make these dodgy expenses claims, our elected MPs did. These are the people we are supposed to trust to govern us and make laws on our behalf.
We deserve the right to vote them out now.
What proof – if any – exists that MPs who have stated they will pay back their ‘erroneous’ claims have actually done so?
Or will we find – if we ever find out at all – that they made an ‘error’ in not paying it back, as accountancy is not their strongest suit?
Call me an old cynic, but why should we believe they are telling the truth about repaying?
It’s getting a bit of a mockery to be honest. This could result in a real low turnout at the next election, or worse, a shift to right0wing parties. This really is a disgrace and it’s extremely important for the three parties to come together – form a coalition or announce a general election. http://www.stepdowngordonbrown.co.uk/
It is FULL TIME that the British People woke up to the fact that now WE have to take Westminster back along with our rights and freedoms and decency BY FORMING OUR OWN POLITICAL PARTY WITH THE SOLE VIEW OF GOVERNMENT!! IT WILL BE A GOV FOR THE PEOPLE AND BY THE PEOPLE REPRESENTING OUR INTRESTS AND NOT ITS OWN! WE WOULD PICK ITS M.PS, WE WILL MAKE THEM FULLY ACCOUNTABLE TO US!! OUR INTERESTS WOULD SOLEY BE REPRESENTED AS INDIVIDUALS AND AS A NATION STATE. WE THE PEOPLE HAVE TO DO THIS IF WE SERIOUSLY WANT THE CORUPTION AND THE GREED THAT PERMEATES THROUGH WESTMINSTER TO COME TO AN END!! I WANT TO KNOW…. ARE WE WILLING??
The easiest way to do this is to only vote for Independant Candidates at the next general election and keep the major parties out.
Of course, it won’t happen because the majority of the nation are apathetic.
Perhaps we could learn from the French how to make public opinion heard. . . .How about a General Strike until the corrupt are drummed out of office ?!
I can well understand Marooncap’s frustration, but he or she forgets that people are so apathetic that nothing will happen. That’s why this has gone on for so long; it’s everyone’s apathy which allowed this to happen. Remember, we get the goverment we deserve…
…Oh, what I forgot to say is that very few people have mentioned the parliamentary Fees Office in all of this – which I didn’t even know existed. They seem to be equally complicit in approving non-existent mortgages and moat clearing. They should get the chop too.
I agree. And then let’s look at the expenses of Euro MP’s and Local Government.
Hairyjack and Everyone… Apathy is no longer an option…The Lisbon Treaty has already been signed and ratified, The bankers and now our “ELECTED” M.P’s are fleecing us like there no tomorrow..thats because in less than a year from now there will be NO TOMORROW!! The Police State control grid is in place and our NEW incoming MASTERS are knocking at the door wanting to come in and rule!! WE THE PEOPLE MUST ORGANISE ASAP. Westminter is playing for time..and it’s fast running out!! learn at http://eutruth.org.uk youtube “Britain on the Brink” to see how our M.P’s have betryed us all!
p.s: its Mr Marooncap.
Mr Mooncap,
I think the majority agrees with you and I hope the Nation’s finally waking up.
There’s dire need for action.
So what’s the next step?
How do you suggest we organise?
What action can we take, first as individuals and then collectively?
How does one rally the Silent Majority?
Once again, agreed about an election, but only after the cleanout has occured and new people given time to talk to the electorate and gain some trust…. its like having a failing football team, say 22 players and simply saying lets pick a different group from what we have…. you need to spread the slection over a wider group.
How did these arrangements re interest payments, furniture and cleaning expeses etc ever get authorised in the first place. Clearly this ‘exclusive club’ of MP’s have been inventive and clever with what theyr’ve agreed their allowances can include already!
ORIGINAL ALLOWANCES
How did these ridiculous allowances ever get authorised in the first place? Who decided it was an OK ‘rule’ to claim for furniture, cleaning, gardening etc, or that ‘flipping’ the 1st and 2nd home was alright…. more than once… didn’t anyone notice people doing it for self gain? How can we trust the people who made these judgements. Embarrassed!!! why cant people behave properly when they arn’t being watched.?
GENERAL ELECTION NOW, BEFORE THE SUMMER RECESS ?
YES or NO ?
THUMBS UP or THUMBS DOWN ?
May 22nd RESULT
VOTES FOR 2
VOTES AGAINST 1
NO VOTES 46 million
The Nation has decided again ! ! ! ! !
Voila the problem !
Obvious now why Hazel Blears is still in Cabinet if Brown fired her then he would have to sack Hoon and Purnell. Any more??
Leave a comment
* Required field.