Amid the furore in which MPs from all parties appeared to abuse the Commons expenses rules without actually breaking them (see my posting yesterday), let us not forget the House of Lords.
Who remembers that four of their lordships were subject to a newspaper sting reported in January this year, which alleged they were prepared to cash in return for changing laws? Four peers were named in the sting: Lords Truscott, Taylor, Snape and Moonie.
Behind closed doors and away from the public gaze, the four have been subject to an inquiry chaired by the former lord chancellor, Lord Derry Irvine (himself of the expensive wallpaper and loo refurbishment fiasco).
Two sources within their lordships’ house tell me that two of the above peers have been cleared by this process and two, Lords Taylor and Truscott, found guilty of misconduct.
It should be said that all four peers have denied wrongdoing and have thus far declined to comment. But there is now a debate going on amongst their lordships as to whether the peers have the power to suspend the guilty at all.
The idea of defenestrating or disrobing these characters would seem to be out of the question.
Is it really possible that politicians who so breach public trust that they are apparently prepared to take cash to change laws will be permitted to remain part of the UK‘s “democratic legislature”?
Unlike prison, in the Lords life means life. Many will interpret the message from the Lords as: “We are beyond the reach of the law.” It is a message which appears to be ringing ever louder in the house below.
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We need folks like you Jon to closely peer at our peerless peers.When we appoint our lords we should put in a clause if their guilty of frauds boot em out and close the doors
Yes, it does….
What would “the political party” want to
do….Imposed “TERM-LIMITS” on the House of Lords!
Defenestration of errant peers – now there’s a reality tv show I’d actually be prepared to watch.
As for the lower House, I’d be fascinated to discover how the Inland Revenue deals with their reimbursed expenses, Do they tax those which are so evidently to the public not “wholly, necessarily and exclusively” incurred? We should be told.
Don’t forget about the Baroness!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenys_Thornton,_Baroness_Thornton
Well done to MP John Mann on the show tonight. At last a voice of reason. Cut MPs wages, they are not a special ’species’ as he says.
Simple solution – change the rules to those which are acceptable to typical company values and the Inland Revenue All those that do not like the “new” regime stand down at the next election. Will we notice?
Why not insist that all MPs’ who have made these claims repay them in full? They owe it to to us as UK Taxpayers!
I think Snowblog should start a ‘Collective noun for MPs.
I’ll kick off with :
A portfolio of MPs
In view of the bag of manure….
A dungheap of MPs
A slime of MPs
Collective noun?
“An Expense of MPs” perhaps?
An invoice of MPs
A charge of MPs
A till of MPs
A deduction of MPs
So, no change there then. It is indeed good to see that our heritage is intact and we are keen on keeping a house that is answerable to nobody and elected by nobody (not that it will make very much difference).
With regard the question of second homes and MPs need to be close to Westminster. I would suggest that the government purchases a block of flats in London and that each MP is allowed one free of charge for the duration of their office. Should they choose to live elsewhere that should be at their expense, should they wish to refurnish/redecorate this appartment it should be at their expense, however, with regards the overall maintenance of the property, the landlord (government) would be both responsible and accountable.MPs need to be reminded that they are supposed to be public servants. Whether or not they have operated within existing rules they must surely have known that they were abusing the system and as a consequence insulting the people who trusted them.
Good to note my mp is helping the locals.£4,000 for gardening is great, me at 61 have just had a stroke my benefit £61 a week,my sin being self employed and not batting from the pavilion end, any one wishing to comment i would be pleased, also without wishing to get too heavy my grandfather was in the somme at the first world war ,my father at arnehim in the second where he was capatured and shot, it’s good to be english
I am the only person who is fed up of this MP expenses story? Surely there is some other news out there? Can we not just lay off the MPs for 3 months to give them time to fix it and then turn the screws again if appropriate?
As someone who has worked away from home during the week for the last 4 years, I feel somewhat qualified to have an opinion on this subject.
For a start, it’s not easy being away from home all the time. I have tried budget hotels, quality hotels and finally serviced apartments. We simply can’t expect MPs to stay in a Travelodge and do a quality job for us.
My view is:-
-Flipping can only be justified in a handful of situations (e.g. if a single MP got married or grown up children left home). It should not be a regular event.
-If a person ‘flips’ or moves house, this should not be justification for a spending spree, why can’t they do what the rest of us do and move their belongings from one house to the other?
-Perhaps we should consider using serviced apartments rather than allowing MPs to buy their own home? Maybe the taxpayer should benefit from the capital appreciation of the property asset, not the MP.
-The general allowance should cover basics such as rent or mortgage interest / utility bills etc. There should be no need to keep requiring furniture and household goods every single year.
-New MPs should get a lump sum on arrival into parliament to cover setting up their second home. This should be calculated based on up to date expense figures, clearly many household goods have reduced in price over the last 10 years.
-Clearly goods do need to get replaced, but not to the level that has been claimed – do you really need a BBQ in both houses?
-I think it is only fair to allow MPs to travel first class and use taxis, I am sure the majority work whist they are travelling and they often work late when trains are less frequent or slower. Taxis can be justified where work either commences before 8am or completes after 7pm.
-There should be no ’second home’ allowance for MPs that are within a one hour commute of Westminster. However, they should be allowed to use a serviced apartment or a hotel if work hours are excessive for a temporary period.
Clearly a quick brain dump isn’t going to solve this, but I think the MPs could learn a lot from the private sector on this subject.
I just wish we’d give them some breathing space to attempt to solve it. I would welcome some in depth analysis on the current state of the middle east rather than 60 seconds on it after 50% of the program is taken up with MP expenses.
I nearly died laughing reading your post. You really are a comic genius. Or an undercover MP!
House of Parliament is home for cheats,fraud and theives. If this the democracy,I think better to have a dictator or Monarchy.One person steal than 646 steals thousands of pounds each.Why do we blame James goodwin?Culprits should be behind bar.I am a pensioner.
It’s not just cash for questions – the Lords have their own expenses scandals. The same newspaper has investigated Baroness Uddin’s mysterious flat in Kent, and has reported on Baroness Thornton, who apparently designates her mother’s bungalow in Bradford as her main home, depsite having lived and worked in London for 30 years where she has a property valued at over £1m, and on (yet again) Lord Truscott, who purchased a property in Bath 5 years ago, since when he has claimed £125,000 in expenses on his “second” home in Mayfair; the newspaper could find no evidence of the Bath property ever being occupied.
There is evidence that many Lords, despite having London homes, claim overnight expenses by designating other properties as their main residence! The answer? Do as the Scottish Parliament now does – no second home allowance but an allowance instead for hotels or the reimbursment of rent for those with no London Property.
Let’s hope that disgraced MPs are not conveniently elevated to the House of Lords where a different system of financial accounting is also in need of ‘transparancy’..Peter
Why are we concentrating solely on MP’s expenses? There is also the matter of the £100k staffing allowance which permits many of our MPs to add to the family income by employing their immediate relations (or in one Tory MP’s case, her nanny), an incidental expenses provision of up to £22k, plus reimbursement of travel to and from constituences. Most MPs travel first class, and many Scottish MPs do a nice line in gathering air miles. Speaker Martin would know about this, having been embroiled in recent controversy when using these to ferry his family down from Glasgow.
There is absolutely No Doubt that some MPs have committed criminal fraud ,should face the penalties as benefit fraudsters and have their ill-gotten gains confiscated or. as necessary, profits made off the backs of taxpayers by flipping their addresses, forcefully paid back. Also a campaign Must be launched to Make MPs reduce their number. I suggest the No. of constituencies should be reduced by half. And quickly, certainly before the next General election. Also if we are to save money, about which nobody argues, we have to vastly reduce the 2nd Chamber for reasonsJon Snow put forward earlier. DW Johnson
Your 11 May 1900 prog re MPs’ expenses was fine. Hopefully some of the worst will be
deselected. But this is only about money. What I want to see is that no MP who voted in favour of the Iraq invasion will get back after the next election.
Reference . Nicola Eves’ blogfacts ,..I acknowledge her comments given her experience of working ‘away from home’ for such a long period..well done and valued comments Nicola!
Zoom back the lens and let’s take time to develop a more accountable and practicable way forward. I support Nicola’s ‘reality check’ but we can add ( with your support ..Nicola.) an accountable process that both recognises and values our elected MPs… the key ..a two way street that is financially relevant and gives MPs a degree of financial freedom to operate…let the consumer, the electorate, judge at local level the use of their money. Yes, and 3 or 4 years later we the investors can cast our vote …any comments Nicola….Peter
One thing I’ve noticed about the MPs’ expenses – and it probably applies even more to the Lords’ – they all buy very expensive television sets.
Yet they keep telling us that they work such long hours they have no time to watch TV or read books.
Am I missing something?
I am complete agreement with those remarks…
They all wanted to have beautiful television sets….
No, you are not missing anything!
Actually it is not the MPs fault per se rather it is more a ‘human condition’ to build up the nest to the best of their ability. There is no shame in this. Perhaps it is different questions that needs to be addressed, for example, is this entire system what the public want? To draw on some of the issues raised in the dispatches program ‘Lost in Care’ and explore the expenses row further then it makes for gloomy reading. I mean when was the decision made that a politician is more worthy than that of a child in care? If you put a picture of a child in care on one side, and one of an MP on the other and then ask society who it values more? Then, and on the evidence obtained pay accordingly. I would ask that the people/professors generating the draconian view of getting children out to adoption prior to the age of 1 years old go back to the drawing board. If addiction is the route cause to all these children being separated from their families then give these families a share in the spread of 3 quarters, Yes 3 quarter of each MPs salary. I can bet your bottom dollar that the addicted individuals discussed are the most impoverished group in society and if you provide them with an opportunity of adequate housing, adequate financial resources, adequate prospects then you eradicate the addiction issue. I agree with getting children out of an addicted environment as early as possible under this current regime but questions need to be asked of the regime.
In the House of Commons today I watched MP’s complain about the Sri Lankan tamil tiger protests and I found it amusing! To see that they complain about an hours delay due to demonstrations contrasting with the people in Sri Lanka who have lost so much. It does not compare.
I’d call for radical change!
Hi Jon,
and Out there..’the wider informed electorate’. I remember a documentary piece you presented regarding the Honours System and I was struck then by your journalistic humilty and independence strengthened by what I regarded as a a journalistic imperative to retain uncontaminated by those most corrosive and corrupting elements of British life.
….yes ..class and patronage…
Full circle Jon..your values have allowed you to take the battle to MPs and Peers without fear of compromise. Journalistic integrity celebrated.
I must express a view on Jeremy Paxman. He commands a large publicly funded cheque and shouts and berates any MP that stays up late as ‘tonight’s victim’ . In my opinion, not good value for money but despite my view I acknowledge his skills and presentation.
My conclusion..well watch and observe the patronige ridden class system launder the defects from our Parliamentary Process to re-emerge clean and defined ready for the electorate to once again press the democratic buttons ….perhaps just maybe ..that is the process that repeatedly votes toffs in power.
Peter
I want this comment to be taken seriously. Corrupt Politicians, rich corporate fat-cats, corrupt greedy individuals and all associated with greed, lies, spin, statistics fiddling, news distortion and law bending, in the UK, should be seen as far worse than Terrorists and, they should be forceably brought to justice and stripped of all their hidden assets.
The scale of ruin to peoples lives in the UK and, elsewhere, beggars belief. From lies about Weapons Of Mass Destruction (WMD) in Iraq, Banking sector fat-cats payouts, Politicians ‘expenses’ manipulation, unemployment, Recession, G20 domination via Police State, most imprisoned people in Europe, to domination of resources, land, property, etc. by the rich. The UK is a beacon of hell to the world and, reminds why the West isn’t the Best and that Capitalism is the slow road to Hell.
What’s the use of complaining about MP’S. In time they will just make new laws to shut the people up and then carry on as usual. So why bother, we know they line there own pockets.
Now if the people really want a change then dont vote for anyone!
Lets see this country change for the better, not just to keep it the same.
As an ex serviceman i am disgusted with this country, look we cant even look after our own soldiers.
Lets really grab the bull by the horn and shake this whole country up.
we now have a chance to start to make this country great again. I hope.
If we dont take this chance, then we can only blame ourselves for not sorting it out.
I hear your frustration Christopher but please do vote. I think your reference to being ‘ex service’ is particularly poignant. Please take heart from ‘the many’ and not those that have voiced their concerns regarding recent foreign adventures that the UK has become embroiled. Peter
Your blog is democracy in action. It’s only this sort of thing that continues to engage me with the process of government.
Jon, you are right that the Lords has no better position than the Commons.
Do away with it and replace it with an elected Upper House of a few – 99 say.
One third of the House to be elected every 2 years for six year terms.
Entry criteria for candidates to include having worked in a real (non-politics) job for more than fifteen years.
Jon, I have watched and listened to much of the MP’s expenses/allowances row but have not heard one Presenter ask -:
WHAT DO YOU THINK YOUR SALARY IS FOR??
Ordinary workers spend in a week -what they earn in a week, just to get by!! Why should MP’s get to keep such a high proportion — what is their basic £60 Grand for???? I know they are elected but they have no ‘ specific qualifications’ They couldn’t get a
‘ WORK PERMIT’!! for example.
Agree with Mark Howard re Labour’s John Mann. We must give the lie to the idea that only financial reward produces the best people for whatever job.
But surely we’re all to blame for parliamentarians’ view of themselves as a separate privileged species by restricting our political involvement to voting, or not voting, at elections, thus allowing the culture of a professional (!) political class to have taken hold? We’ve become political spectators, not participants.
If democracy is to continue to grow, just as introducing payment for MPs was necessary in the past to take politics out of the hands of the rich and powerful, surely we now need to move from a top-down hired-hands ‘representative’ system to a bottom-up participatory one? The introduction of a citizen’s income could be crucial for this.
Democracy cannot bloom in the hands of apparatchiks, elected or otherwise.
to conclude collective nouns
….and a sh***bag of MPs
There seems to be no hope at the moment for a country run by a parliament that seems to justify backhanders and fraud. No criminal charges are made and these people are allowed to keep there jobs with just a slap on the hand and a payment plan. What worries me most is they believe what they do is o.k. What other skull duggary is there to come?
Meg Howarth’s view above is very true. Look on any ‘chat’ site, dating-site, special interest site or whatever, and to the question ‘What are your politics?’ the answer is ALWAYS ‘I’m not interested in politics’. (I contact them and ask why not – but I never get a reply!)
…by the way…let’s not forget Baroness Uddin’s empty Maidstone pad…
Dear and Glorious Queen – Your Majesty,
A blight has descended on Parliament: a plague of being on the make and on the take has polluted the principal political institution of your present realm. Great scandal has been caused by many Honorable Members who have taken advantage of rules that they have devised, but protest they do not understand. It is but a few months since you opened Parliament and you enjoined it Members to serve the common good.
Not only have Honourable Members failed the test of public trust but several Members of the House of Lords are found by their Peers to have betrayed the honour of probity and honesty expected of them. The subjects of the United Kingdom seek in vain for a latter-day Oliver Cromwell to enter both Chambers of The House and rid the realm of such abuse of office.
Everywhere, honest hard working subjects are losing their jobs, defaulting on their mortgages, experiencing difficulty in adequately nourishing their children. Meanwhile, Honourable Members of Parliament, who have become so thoroughly removed from the ordinary life of the populace engage in scams that ordinary subjects would be promptly arrested for and disgraced.
In the provision of public services, the Comprehensive Spending Review ensures under-funding in all areas: fighting soldiers are ill equipped, the wounded and maimed are reluctantly cared for, the Social & Health Services cannot cope with demand. In the face of these injustices, Honourable Members of Parliament enrich themselves while scorning the poor. This very week, I have attempted to help one of your subjects make an appeal against refusal of a grant to buy a cooker and a bed, and another subject has been denied a crisis loan to purchase a kettle. In the face of this we learn that Members of Parliament has been purchasing all manner of goods to furnish their two homes.
I have but one simple plea. Dissolve this Parliament as soon as your many engagements will permit, and sign an Order in Council to permanently bar the parliamentary miscreants from re-standing for election.
Your dutiful servant. Anthony J Brady.
Sorry about the sarcasm – I hadn’t read it all through.
Hey Jon I saw this in one of the weekend papers and thought you’d like it:
Due to unforeseen technical problems, the Commons gravy train has been temporarily suspended. Members are advised to proceed to the House of Lords where a similar service is available.
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