Landing at Heathrow this morning, well slept on my BA flight from Washington, I suddenly recall an experience I had last week coming in from Jerusalem. I had been there for tonight’s Dispatches (Gaza Unseen at 11pm tonight, Channel 4). This is the mental blog I made at the time -
Strangely, these days a lot of movements at the new T5 terminal seem to involve a bus ride. The bus was there at the bottom of the steps. So was a very beautiful attendant in a chadoor, exceptionally beautiful. I boarded the bus along with many others from my BA flight from Tel Aviv and was suddenly conscious of the chadoor-clad woman outside, contrasting with an array of yarmulkes. There were half a dozen Hassidic Jews too. And I thought, if my old dad had been there we’d have had a dog collar on the bus, too.
Then I thought about the God Doesn’t Exist bus ad that’s doing the rounds in London and I thought about religion and wondered why we have to wear so inner a conviction so ostentatiously on our outer sleeve. How much of the woe I have had to report over the past quarter century has been about outward religious difference.
Arriving at the multimedia emporium I work in, I saw my Muslim friend already at her desk. No outward visible sign that she is one, and I have never asked her how much of a Muslim she is anyway. It’s no business of mine, and she wears nothing to suggest that it should be.
I suppose some would say that I am in the heart of a pagan enterprise. I never discuss faith with people I work with – it doesn’t honestly interest me. I have no objection to people having the freedom to wear whatever they want to. I’d protest to defend them. And yet…
Commentsoldest first
Feelings on faith are inherently personal – and that’s how they should be. Since ‘religion’ generally seeks to provide answers to two questions – ‘Where do we come from’ and ‘Where do we go when we die’ – which are unanswerable, why must we fight over different theories?
I admire people who have strong faith, and I don’t doubt that many religions provide noble frameworks for living, but to hate another for believing a different path is surely short sighted?
I was disgusted a few moments again to see how Jon Snow cut off the Isareli Govt spokesman just because he did not have a reply and also did not agree to the comment. How can newscasters in Bt. television be so biased, so prejudiced and so anti Israel… I will not say anti semitic so as not to be accused of being predictable
Dear Jon,
I have just watched the documentary on Gaza, in truth I had to turn it off because of some of the footage.
I can only hope that a copy of your footage will be sent to No. 10 and President Obama. Any reasonable, decent human being would judge that those who carried out these crimes are pure animals. It is pure evil by anyones standards.
Yours
Stephen
Dublin, Ireland
Couldn’t agree more with comments on Religion. It went round and round here in Belfast for years. The dread of listening to the news first thing in the morning has still not left me, as it would usually be some senseless killing that had taken place during the night. Killed for nothing, point scoring and endless misery. I, like everyone who lives here, am glad to have peace . I hope that the people in Gaza have the same soon, it has gone on much too long already.
I have a strong faith that violence never effectively solved any problem, long term, and after 35 years of militant atheism/socialism, I find myself very comfortable in the Religious Society of Friends. No dogma you see! Only living life as well and as adventurously as possible, taking care to notice that of God in everyone.
Jon wrote: “I have no objection to people having the freedom to wear whatever they want to. I’d protest to defend them. And yet…”.
Hmm. Just try and wear or display anti-religious regalia, slogans, badges, tee-shirts etc and the god-botherers or their apologists soon get very hot under the collar. I suggest .
And our society seems vigorously to defend their right not to be offended. Recent legislation has made things worse.
But if I am offended by outward (or indeed any) displays of religiosity – which I avowedly am – then I’m in the wrong.
Religion is anti-intellectual, medieval claptrap and we shouldn’t apologize for asserting so. It is very harmful and mankind should be growing out of it.
French society with its laïcité seems to organise things rather better than the UK. And the highly religious U.S. is a great deal worse. (You can’t even be elected in the U.S. without proclaiming a religion.)
Why do you continue to blame Israel on Gaza?
You are at it again tonight!
What about blaming Hamas for firing rockets from populated areas.
You are playing into the hands of these terrorists and I am now getting fed up with your constant one sided tirade against Israel.
Congatulations on having the integity and decency to provide some honest reporting on the savage invasion of Gaza.
How is it that the best the BBC can do is to give endless air time to that ridiculous Israeli spokesman (Mark Reggeff[?]) It is bad enough that the BBC have lost all credibility but to then expect us to continue funding what has become a Zionist proaganda broadcaster……….I could go on!
What about blaming Hamas for firing rockets from populated areas
Not defending Hamas… but .. remind me… how many of the Noble Israeli Heroes got killed…. and how many Palestinians???
I saw unseen Gaza from channel 4 By Jon Snow. He is so brave and unbelievable in giving the news in depth.
I cried for all the children who died in this war by Israeli military. As I cried for Anna Frank when I read her diary.
At the time when I read the book, assumed those days, who people had fought, has passed and nowadays, they are civilian people, who solve their problem diplomatic not with war.
I supposed Hitler was a mad, foolish, anesthetized man and nobody can find like him. But I did not die and see in a contemporary century, still people has battled and although Hitler died there are one thousands Hitler in Israel.
I have just watched Jon on Channel 4 News having to interview that thug, Mark Regev, the public face of Israel’s lying propaganda machine. His defiance in response to his nation’s army slicing to pieces, blowing to fragments and smouldering with phosphorus the innocent civilians of Gaza was so insufferable that I plead with Channel 4 not to allow him to inflict his deceitful, perfidious, racist lies on us any more.
“Palestinians confirm Hamas war crimes, refute Gaza death toll
An Italian reporter who entered the Gaza Strip following the recent Israeli assault on Hamas there wrote in his newspaper on Thursday that the casualty figures announced by Hamas and so eagerly passed on by the UN, Red Cross and foreign media were grossly exaggerated.
At most, five or six hundred Palestinians died in Gaza over the past month, according to Lorenzo Cremonesi, a correspondent for Italy’s Corriere della Sera. The foreign media has carried numerous sources citing Hamas and UN officials claiming in excess of 1,300 killed.
But Cremonesi explained, “It is sufficient to visit several hospitals [in the Gaza Strip] to understand that the numbers don’t add up.” He noted that in nearly all of Gaza’s major hospitals, and especially those in major conflict zones, he found most beds empty.
On top of that, Cremonesi reported that a doctor at Gaza City’s Shifa Hospital who asked to remain anonymous for fear of Hamas acknowledged that the death toll had been inflated. He also told the reporter that many of the dead were “youths between the ages of 17 to 23 who were recruited to the ranks of Hamas and then sent them to the slaughter.”
Cremonesi also wrote that Gazans he interviewed confirmed Israeli accusations of Hamas war crimes, especially the deliberate use of the civilian population as human shields.
When local Gazans demanded that Hamas and its allies not take up positions near them, one interviewee said the terrorists responded:
“Traitors, collaborators with Israel, spies of Fatah, cowards! The soldiers of the holy war will punish you. And in any case you will all die, like us. Fighting the Zionist Jews we are all destined for paradise. Do you not wish to die with us?”
Others recounted how Hamas gunmen had disguised themselves as paramedics and commandeered ambulances to avoid being targeted by the Israelis, and how UN facilities were in fact used as launch pads for rockets and mortar shells.”
Right on Annie. Wear your burka with pride
Contrary to Anne Butterfield, I am always delighted to see Mark Regev on Channel 4 News (though his very name is wont to raise my blood pressure to dangerous levels).
Jon Snow and C4 News’s journalists are more than a match for his egregious spin and barefecaced attempts to whitewash the ethical bankruptcy of the government he represents.
Bring him on, I say, and give him the rope…
I don’t know where else to post this but I just saw you cut off that Israeli spokesman on tonight’s news. Thank you for doing so, i’m sick of hearing them try to justify this.
I see nothing wrong with displays of religion….as long as it’s not at the expense of others beliefs!! freedom of speech but no freedom to insult and offend..
Freedom of speech includes the freedom to insult and offend – else it isn’t freedom at all.
And religion is eminently offendable and offensive.
Err. It’s not actually freedom of speech if there’s no freedom to insult and offend. At least US law (and until fairly recently UK law) recognised this.
Not least “insult and offend” is highly subjective.
Personally, I find religion(s) insulting and offensive to human intelligence in a very fundamental sense. I reserve the absolute right to “insult and offend” its adherents and certainly its proselytizers at every turn.
Excellent choice of tie today John; the abstract horseshoes offered hope and luck to a country unsure about its future in this time of economic strife.
Didn’t see your socks.
I think each human being has an inherent understanding of what is good and evil without even stepping foot into a religious building, of any faith. I would never deny anyone their beliefs or force my beliefs on them. Religion is a personal thing that should not need discussion.
I spent 24 very happy years in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and my close Saudi colleaques considered me an unrepentant pagan of the more amiable kind, and throughout innumerable discourses I maintain that their interpretation of prescribed ‘doctrine’ outlined in Old Testament scripture is far more ‘honourable’ than the Western alternative!
Your interview this evening with the Israeli government spokesman was a disgraceful parade of your petulant prejudice and overweening self-belief. Your final act in cutting-off the microphone of your interviewee was boorish in the extreme.
Congratulations on making Israeli spokesman Mark Regev look a complete idiot! I’m no fan of Hamas but for Regev to suggest that they used phosperous bombs on their own people was frankly beyond belief – bonkers, totally! Why on earth do you and other TV/radio channels keep giving him air time? His tune hasn’t changed in 10 years! Please, please – find someone else to defend Israel. And yes, congratulations too Jonathan Miller for his reports on Gaza, what a nightmare it must have been to witness what he’s witneseed over the past two days. I used to be passionately pro-Israel but after this, no more.
Religion was created by a minority with riches to keep the masses quiet and fearful. Thankfully, the masses no longer fear to the same degree. I figure another 100 years and bus posters promoting atheism will be accepted, and won’t cause drivers to abandon their shift in shock.
I understand a great number of ‘non-believers’ are comfortable in saying ‘each to their own’ but this is one non-believer who feels that to better egalitarianism and humanity within society, religion should be nipped in the bud for good.
I am delighted but not taken by surprise to learn that Jon’s tolerance is catholic in its scope.
Getting down to earth though, and notwithstanding the above, I have to say that what I really feel, and with passion, is that the person who really knocks his sartorial SOX off is none other than Samira.
I must admit that I envy those with devout faith and belief.
But at the same time questioning do I have any faith? Do I object to faith?
I realised that while having immense respect for other peoples choices, that I am in no way ready for it myself! Or then again perhaps I am in denial?
hey Jon, time and again I find myself punching the air and playing a brief lilt on my air guitar when I watch your live interviews with Israeli sources; Regev’s interview this evening was no exception.
SRSly dude you WROCK!!!
How do you deal with such PR monkies? If I were tasked the same I’d probably put my chair through the screen.
Your piece this evening about Israel using prohibited munitions (white phosphorous, cluster, fleches) was LONG overdue
.
I might suggest that one of the mysterious munitions used (the one that left no residue) by the Israelis on Palestinians were PLASMA muntions.
Jon
Thank you to Jon and all the other channel4 journalists for defending the freedom of the press and free speech, and for withstanding the zionist propaganda machine.
To the poster who insinuated anti-semitism – There are quite a few Jewish people who have made protest against the israeli occupation. Will you be insinuating that they are anti-semitic as well?
Have any of the channel4 team seen Occupation 101 and might it be screened to restore balance to the argument in the main-stream media?
I enjoyed watching the Israeli Media Spokesperson. Mark Regev, making a complete has of his interview. It shows that when one speaks about Palestinians as Hman Beings that Hurt, then Israeli propagandists fall apart with mantras like “Democracy” and”Western Democracies” in order to make Westerners identify with their War Machine through racial similarity.
I greatly respect Jon Snow’s professionalism as a reporter and interviewer but I feel that over recent weeks spokespersons for state terrorism have been allowed to get away unchallenged with justifications for their actions which simply do not hold water. In particular two fallacies have been repeated so often that I feel compelled to draw attention to them.
[1] The “unintended consequences” fallacy.
Defenders of IDF actions repeatedly draw a moral distinction between Hamas’ actions which intend to kill civilians but thankfully in the majority of cases fail in this objective and IDF actions which in fact result in the death of many hundreds of innocent civilians but unintentionally. The impression is generated that Israel bears no legal or moral responsibility for these deaths because an agent cannot be held responsible for unintended deaths. This is not true. If I were to drive under the influence of alcohol and accidentally kill someone then I would be fully responsible for that death both morally and in law even though causing death or injury was the furthest thought from my mind. Anyone who knowingly puts another person in harms way is fully responsible for any harm that ensues even if they do not intend that harm. When Israel fires ordinance into civilian residential areas it may be able to argue that this course of action is the least evil of all the possible alternatives but it cannot argue that it is not responsible for all the consequences of such actions, even those it does not intend.
[2] The “it’s not our fault it’s theirs” fallacy.
Israeli spokespersons regularly blame civilian deaths on Hamas’ using of civilians as human shields. The use of human shields is, of course, to be utterly condemned but the fact that terrorists might be exploiting even innocent children in such a despicable way does not give security forces the right to kill the children in order to get at the terrorists. Moral and legal responsiblity for the deaths of the innocent civilians lies with those whose actions lead directly to their deaths whether or not (as argued above) they intend those deaths. This remains true even if the innocent civilians are functioning unwittingly as human shields
Mark Regev insisted that Hamas broke the cease fire until confronted by More4 (C4’s sister). He then insisted that there was firing from inside a UN school. That too had to be retracted. The same happened with the initial lie about not using WP munitions (thanks to video evidence).
During the summer cease fire, Hamas lived up to its commitments but Israel, shamefully, intensified the siege. Hamas has some shameful policies and rhetoric but they provided services and security to Palestinians in Gaza. They had signed up to the Saudi peace plan and 1967 borders and unlike ex-president Abbas who got no concessions on settlements and checkpoints, Hamas wants a proper deal. It’s difficult not to see this as a cynical attempt to make sure Hamas doesn’t gain legitimacy, which was looking more likely.
To see Jonathan Miller’s report showing whole villages actually “wiped off the map” was chilling. This wasn’t a rhetorical wiping either.
Thank you Channel 4, a voice in the wilderness of British news.
Jon:
I think that religion was created to keep control over the poor and; keep the rich happy….
To all those pro-Israelis commenting..YES! it is predictable that anyone who denounces Israel’s disgraceful acts of violence will be called an anti-semite! you people need to read and get out more! Frankly, we’re bored of this conjecture, so please move on..if Israel was so innocent and they didn’t have anything to hide then why ban foreign journalists and bombard them with typical false propaganda?!
Anyway, on another point. Well done Channel 4 for tonights programme and your unbuased reporting- I have been converted from the blatantly biased BBC..long live Jon Snow.
Thank You for showing us Gaza Unseen. Brilliant, what an insight. Israel will have to answer for the crimes they have committed. Oh! what you did to Mark Regev, well that just had to be done!
Jon Snow is entitled to have an opinion on the atrocities which have occured, directly, as a result of religion.
The wars, the bloodshed, the sincere horror caused by ‘believers’ (lets face it, the particular emblem assigned becomes increasingly irrelevant) is unforgivable.
A blind faith is comparaive to being a child immersed in imagination, it’s a fantasy. I am shocked that in 2009 people still cling on to ‘belief as if it’s a baby to protect from the horror of the world. The only obvious horror is organised religion, misinterpretation of the scriptures of yesteryear. A reluctance to let it be challenged is ignorant and defensive. If there is faith then the words of the non-believers should be irrelevant. It’s not irrelevant because it’s about more than faith. It’s after-life insurance.
I am very uncomfortable with the fact that religion is in any way applicable to the people who govern a nation. It should be a pre requisite that the leaders of our nations are of no fixed faith. It makes my blood boil that this outdated rubbish has any association with the state.
As for the interview with Mark Regev. It could hardly be called an interview.
He has been difficult and obstinate in many key areas. He has not offered an apology for the behaviour of Israel once. He would prefer to repeat the propaganda that a democratically elected Hamas are terrorists.
We are not the U.S.A Mark , we do not fall to our knee’s and clutch our flag when we hear the T word.
I think there was little choice but to cut off a man raising his voice. Raise your voice and you’ve lost. War crimes have been committed by Israel. Hold them accountable.
“I suppose some would say that I am in the heart of a pagan enterprise. ”
Er ,Jon – don’t you have some sort of journalists’ ’style guide’ to tell you about proper use of words? If so it would, or should, tell you that the term “pagan” is no longer a synonym for “unbeliever”.
There are hundreds of thousands of pagans in the UK and we are most definately believers!
My Oxford English Dictionary says: “One of a nation or community which does not hold the true religion, or does not worship the true God; a heathen. (•In earlier use practically = non-Christian, and so including Muslims and, sometimes, Jews.”
So the term “pagan” is entirely relative to your own perception of the norms of your own society.
So I’m with Jon Snow on this. Colloquially he is right. (And I had a pagan girlfriend once.)
first time I’ve gon on to a blog site. I will do so again and join the debate.
I am very sorry to have missed your Dispatches programme on Gaza Unseen yesterday. can we please have a repeat prog. on this.
Hello Jon,
You write:
and I thought about religion and wondered why we have to wear so inner a conviction so ostentatiously on our outer sleeve. How much of the woe I have had to report over the past quarter century has been about outward religious difference.
We fight to be right about anything and this includes religion. Betting on a horse that wins a race is like being right that that horse is the best runner while others who didn’t bet on the same horse are wrong about their choice of horse as the fittest runner. People who back a losing horse do not like being wrong in the same way those who backed the winner enjoy being right about their choice. When it’s about a life and death issue that betting on a horse isn’t we can get mighty stirred up indeed because being right about anything is about being able to continue to survive according to how good our judgement is and that is a big deal.
Thank heavens now science will answer more and more questions for us now as time goes by.
The fact that religion plays a part in politics, to the extent of it being a prerequisite to election, still shocks me. It’s fantasy and afterlife insurance that even our supposed leaders pander to. You have the right to dispute and reflect upon religion. If faith is all encompassing then surely believers should take criticism with a smile? Religion has caused horror, war, bloodshed and hatred in the world. It’s archaic fantasy, and modern misinterpretation of quite beautiful scripture has caused many a war. The good of Religion has been lost in translation. Truth is the greatest cost in many respects.
As for Regev. This man has wasted every opportunity to appologise for Israel. He would prefer to mention the ‘T’ word in an attempt to cover the actions of his country. If a man shouts, he as lost. He had to be cut off.
Netanya Marie Smith wrote: “The fact that religion plays a part in politics, to the extent of it being a prerequisite to election…”
In the US – absolutely. But in the UK – not at all.
We’ve had many atheist and agnostic elected politicians in the UK as elsewhere in Europe. In France there’s very specific legislated exclusion of religion from political/public life (laïcité).
The US is just odd about this. There’s supposed to be a constitutional separation of politics and religion, but in reality, that’s a fiction. “God” is even on the US currency.
Oh and there’s no “good of religion”. It’s all downside.
Politicians and priests are both interested in having the power to influence the way the rest of us think and using this to enhance their own status and usually to acquire wealth and privileges. They long ago discovered that by working together, rather than against each other, they could achieve more.
Almost all states are founded on such a collaboration. The only exceptions I can think of are the communist states. But then many would say that communism was a religion anyway.
Of course the Probably No God bus – wearing agnosticism/atheism on its sleeve – is only a reaction to theism on sleeves, alerting people to the fact that there is an alternative, that it’s possible to be moral and ethical without religious doctrine. Kind of an important point to make in the face of so many of the damaging religious messages that seek to sow division, violence and lack of critical thought, furthering the woe fuelled by ideas about outward religious difference.
Leave a comment
* Required field.