Is meaningful action on guns possible?
Barack Obama shed the tears of a nation at his press conference. Who could not think for even a moment about that class of five or six-year-olds and not be moved? His understanding of any parent’s need to hug their child a little tighter expressed with just the right tone. But it is harder to take his demand for ”meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this regardless of the politics” on face value.
In Britain it chimed with the moments after the Dunblane primary school massacre of 1996 when we all knew something had to be done, and after the Cullen Report guns became even less accessible to us than before. But gun control is the issue which always reminds me that we in Britain are less like the Americans than we often think. Talk to a pro-gun American and while you look at them they look at you with each thinking the other is crazy.
On my last trip to America before the election for Unreported World I met one such gun enthusiast, the owner of several hand guns including a Glock like the one reportedly used in Connecticut. But this proponent wasn’t a rural farmer, a sports shooter or a kid with too much testosterone. Joyce Kaufman was a Puerto Rican grandmother from New York who works as a talk radio host in Fort Lauderdale. Her jingle declares her “South Florida’s most heavily armed talkshow host in America”. For people like Joyce the right to bear arms is non-negotiable. She thinks we are the crazy ones for not choosing to defend ourselves in a dangerous world. As long as the murderers and thieves have access to guns she wants hers too. “Guns don’t kill, people do” is the oft repeated phrase when you talk to her about it.
More from Channel 4 News: School shootings – horror, shock and calls for gun controls
Joyce isn’t alone. There are millions of people who just as strongly believe their Second Amendment right to bear arms is as fundamental to America as their First Amendment right to freedom of speech. At a conference of Christian conservatives I watched thousands cheer Oliver North, veteran of the Iran-Contra scandal, as he told them he’d just presented his newest baby grandson with his first gun.
So when Barack Obama says “regardless of the politics” I wonder what he really means. And what he really thinks he can deliver. There are plenty of people who want gun control in the US too and plenty who see the seemingly obvious relationship between the availability of guns and the frequency of their use. But there are lots who don’t. That’s perhaps why hours before Obama made his tearful speech his spokesman Jay Carney claimed “today is not the day to talk about gun control”. Of course it turned out that he couldn’t have been more wrong – but talking about it and meaningful action are a long way apart.
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There are 23 comments on this post
Nothing will be done, the killing will go on. And people like the lady you describe will continue “bearing arms” as people all over her country die.
America is unfortunately an insane country, a sea of extreme religion, mixed with rigidly traditional values and racial seperatism, a massively powerful arms industry and at wo party system that will never address any of it!
I think it is natural after such a dreadful tragedy to consider how it can be averted in the future, and gun control is a logical part of that. However, I would not underestimate the difficulties of agreeing such controls in the United States. America is a federal country, unlike Britain, and there would be very strong political and legal resistance to any kind of federal gun control. The US has more guns than people in most estimates, so the task of removing or even reducing that is a Herculean one. You could end up with the worst of both worlds, disarming the householder while leaving the criminal heavily armed. There really is no easy solution. Perhaps a modest start might be to agree to restrict some of the most powerful offensive weapons, such as assault rifles, which really there cannot be any justification for any private citizen to own.
It seems so alien to our nation that guns are a necessary part of a civilised society. But this is what many Americans regard as their last line of defence against an “unknown ” enemy. It is so entrenched in the collective psyche. It may take some time yet to restructure their thoughts.
I am truly sorry for those who have lost loved ones.
Perhaps the real time to reflect will be after an appropriate time of mourning
The ‘unknown’ enemy you mention is the so called US government which anyone who looks into these things will know doesn’t govern for the benefit of US citizens- quite the opposite in fact.
Citizens of the US will fight against gun control as there is a fear of the ‘government’ and where it wants to take America to- or should I say where its already taken the American people to.
Without doubt the US government is anticipating big trouble and mass slaughter, hence the many large FEMA sites filled with row upon row of cheap coffins that can accommodate about four bodies each.
I remember a few years back hearing that a sheriff’s department in the States had found they were being out-gunned local criminals, so they needed to upgrade their weapons to compete. What do you suppose they did with their old guns? They offered them for sale to the general public in a local auction!
But it’s so much more complicated than citizens defending themselves against robbers. Look at the huge private ownership of high calibre weapons – way more fire power than needed to scare off an intruder. The bit we don’t get here in the UK is for many Americans the fundamental mistrust of the State. Conspiracy theories are rife. Many people fully believe that the CIA or the FBI will one day try to seize control from the Government, and that it is their resonponsibility at citizens to bear arms to defend themselves against this.
Krishnan is right – the mind set in the US is so different to ours in the UK.
Yes..it’s a quagmire…and your observation about the differences between the British and Americans rings true too…but i wonder..isn’t this issue of gun control as much about politics as it is about nationalality?
On Twitter last night…as the news was coming in…it became rather obvious that there were alot of people who were incandescently furious about the lack of action in US about gun-control…but it was just about all coming from people i know to be on the left of the political spectrum…
The right-wingers stayed silent…or if they did say anything…it seemed to be to pour scorn on what they saw as ‘lefty anti-Americanism’.
I really think that its the elephant in the room…the fact that right-wing beliefs in ‘Liberalism and self-autonomy’ above all other concerns are the primary motives in the gun-law debate in America…and in the mainly Democratic states we see a much larger majority wanting tighter control on the availability of guns….
Obama is in his final term…he MUST now use this position to push through controls on guns in the States…
If he doesn’t….i’m afraid that he will go down in history as the President who FAILED to protect everyone else from the narrow rights of the individual.
In a country where a supposedly Christian minister can say that the reason for the masscare was that God wasn’t there, because prayers had been taken away from school assemblies and therefore “God wouldn’t go where he wasn’t wanted” in direct contradiction of the words of Jesus, you cannot expect a discussion which we in the UK would regard as fact-based. For all their lack of democracy, Chinese ascendancy may be better for the world than a country whose politics & religion seem to be descending into vitriol, violence and stasis.
I’ve had this discussion with some US gun owners and it really is, as you suggest, like talking to someone from another planet. There is no apparent connection made between the dangerous world they live in and the possession of extremely deadly weapons in many homes.
Pro gun individuals are extremely protective of their right to defend themselves and do not want to discuss the possibility that confronting an intruder might be more dangerous than not doing so, they do not want to discuss the possibility that an ‘intruder’ might be completely harmless (I myself have been in a situation where I entered the wrong apartment by mistake and I know several people who say that they would have shot me with intent to kill), take as an extreme example the man who shot his own son, thinking he was an armed intruder (a bizarre incident) http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/connecticut-man-shoots-dead-his-own-son-after-mistaking-him-for-a-burglar-8190458.html
The ‘right to self defence’ laws e.g. in Florida are now bringing up instances where people claim to feel threatened and are using deadly force that almost guarantees deaths where an unarmed confrontation would not – Trayvon Martin for example, which is now not the only highly questionable case .
If guns did not kill people the army would not be using them.
Krish,
The answer to your question is: “Of course it is.”
But it’s the wrong question. It should be: “WILL it bring meaningful action on guns?”
The answer to the second question is: “No.” And the reason is the marrow-deep, violent nature of US culture. The founding of their country was based on achieving results through mass murder and invasion followed by deluded propaganda.
One would like to think the present horror will evolve out. But that is unlikely to even begin until well past the age of your grandchildren. Plainly, the present US generation is completely incapable of rational decency on this issue. You need only consult the sheer craziness of the radio talk show host. We are talking real madness here, of the type that overwhelmed the German people in the 1930s and 1940s.
Ask yourself: “Would I feel safe for my children in a US school? Would I trust that culture to promote decency and a fear-free society?”
It would be more appropriate if that desperately unhappy nation was renamed Gekkoland or Pattonia. And THAT is the country our British establishment follow around like poodles at every available opportunity.
To all you Brits who say that we are paranoid because our government might try to take our rights, oppress us, or take control: 1776 anyone? It’s the basis of how our country was founded.. maybe you should mind your own business, and hope that no one with a weapon breaks into your house. Take a look at your crime rates and get back to me.
1776? Yeah, well its the same ‘people’ who have been taking ‘control’ of your country if you did but know it. With the same ‘post war de-industrialisation’ policy both sides of the Atlantic civic unrest is inevitable, only its going to be slightly tricky to manage in the US because most citizens are armed.
A terrible tragedy. I agree to certain extent with some opinions here. I have had discussions with some UK anti-gun hystericals, and that is also like talking to someone from another planet. Many seem to have an idea that a gun itself is somehow a piece of a devil. Brennan: “If guns do not kill people the army would not be using them”. Army, you do mean people in army – actually holding and controlling guns, don’t you? For most “pro-gun” americans, just as most “pro-gun” europeans, shooting is just an excellent sport or a hobby, often also a way to protect your home and person (it is still allowed in some countries!). You might not want to know but several “pro-gun” European countries are in fact much safer, crime-wise, than many “anti-gun” countries, I know it is not trendy to have these opinions, especially after such a tragedy, but it is a fact however. You want to prevent lots of tragic deaths and misery of many more – ban alcohol!
I think that we in general accept that the US will not change. It is a young settler expansionist country. What we should learn from this as an older settled country is that we must not go back to that. Gun control in this country must not be relaxed. In fact I think personally the laws should be tightened. Where do these gun clubs keep their guns anyway? If they are at the unmanned premises then that is of concern. Are they at the homes of these people?
Meaningful action is not possible on guns in the US but it is here. Freedom always comes at a price. If that means offending a few gun owners then that is a price that I am willing to pay.
Understand America has a major problem with obesity. Maybe their own worst enemy is themself. Therefore its an education, not a gun, they should be looking for.
The American education system was deliberately dumbed down many years ago. The American people’s worst problem, apart from the deadly medical system and some of the awful food they eat is the fact they have no government to represent them. Of course I realise that government in the UK also does not represent the people. I’m now running a risk of being asked to appear on Mastermind answering questions on ‘the bleedin obvious’.
As with every other written word of “authority” (e.g. the Bible, the Koran), people interpret the 2nd Amendment in the way they want, to reinforce their own pre-existing views. It would be quite possible to read the 2nd Amendment as suggesting that anyone who isn’t in a militia in the USA has no particular right to own a gun.
And for those US citizens reading these comments, few of we Brits are hysterical. We merely live in a largely gun-free society with a vastly lower murder and crime rate than yours. We don’t trust our government either, and we doubt whether they are governing in the interests of most of us, but nor do we suppose that they are about to impose martial law on us. By and large we don’t look back to our Civil War, beheading a king & establishment of a republic, as reasons for how we conduct our lives and our politics in the 21st Century.
From Pheonix AZ, where I’m sheltering from UK weather, this issue looks quite different.
There are already beyond 300 million guns in US homes. And the US has wide land borders to north and south. Which imply that any ban or restriction like those in our island is unlikely to be effective.
Moreover, none of the different remedies suggested for the US is mutually exclusive. The public belief that ‘something’ must be done is pretty near unanimous. The NRA recommends two actions: that violent gun movies, tv shows and video games be restricted (more about that later) and that security at schools and colleges should be enhanced with guards. The latter seems unrealistic, but there is a case for making violent entry to public buildings much, much harder. Maybe bullet-proof glass to ground floor doors and windows and better surveillence devices?
As for bans on assault weapons and large capacity magazines, there may be a consensus in favour, but any measure must run the gauntlet of the Supreme Court and the 2nd amendment. No one knows whether Federal law can overcome that combination. It certainly would not remove the current weapons from existence.
Just as TV commentators are proclaiming a ban on all assault weapons, MSNBC (a left-leaning channel) was also promoting a series of forthcoming westerns led by a clip of a ‘rifleman’ shooting a Winchester from his crotch in a random direction. That clip was supported by others that equally displayed the culture of violent gun actions. Disregarding the improbability of the crotch position, the phallic implications are easy to follow. Why isn’t this sort of promotion unacceptable in a civilized nation?
Finally, we should be relieved that we live on a small islands where gun bans can be almost entirely effective.
I find this quite interesting. I’m not American and whilst I personally think it odd that a civilised country enables its citizens to carry weapons I feel it’s up to them to decide what’s right and what’s wrong. Perhaps it’s a little like forcing another’s culture or sense of morals on a different people? Perhaps it’s like ‘free-ing’ or ‘liberating’ other countries? It’s an opportunity for those in the US (esp to the right) to perhaps understand how people in other countries might feel to have their own beliefs criticised.?
Hoping that 2013 is an excellent year for everyone
I think its wrong that a populace should be armed to the extent that America is, however, currently I think the American people cannot trust their security to a government that doesn’t have the interests of the American people at heart. (It’s not politically correct to say that Washington governs actually for another country outside of the USA). Why are there very many large internment camps recently built and spread all over the USA? Economists forecast severe inflation for the US in the next few years and this will inevitably bring civil unrest as it seems at last most American people are finally beginning to realize what an awful government and monetary system they are slave to.
As for guns, I’m totally fed up with seeing constant violence, sex and mayhem portrayed on the TV and in films- I know why this stuff is being pushed out and that there is a devious agenda to corrupt and desensitize the younger generation.