Gun control: What can America learn from Britain?
US President Barack Obama could reveal his plans to cut gun violence later today, as New York becomes the first state to pass tough new laws on firearms.
Calls for tighter gun controls have been mounting in response to last month’s shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, where gunman Adam Lanza shot dead 20 children and six adults.
But America’s powerful pro-gun lobby says it will resist attempts to undermine what it says is the constitutional right to bear arms.
Talk-show host Piers Morgan is leading calls for a ban on semi-automatic weapons, which were used in the Newtown massacre and in many other recent mass shootings.
Is Piers right?
Love him or hate him, the former Mirror editor is at the centre of much of the debate about gun control at the moment.
Piers has been fact-checked to death by various US news sources over his repeated claims that there were 11,000 gun murders in America last year and only 35 in Britain.
But he could be right about shootings in America, depending on which set of statistics you prefer to use.
There were 11,078 firearms homicides in 2010, according to the Center for Disease Control and Prevention.
The FBI puts the figure for that year much lower at 8,874 – a number which has been seized on by Piers’s critics – but the bureau’s records depend on voluntary contributions and may not be as comprehensive.
As far as the “35 gun murders in Britain” line goes, Piers has got this wrong. The Home Office recorded 60 shooting homicides in England and Wales in 2010/11. The average is 62 a year over the last 15 years.
Allow for population difference and we get a gun murder rate of about 0.1 per 100,000 people in England and Wales.
In America the rate is about 3.6 per 100,000 or about 2.9 per 100,000 if you prefer to use the FBI figures. The gun murder rate is 33 or 27 times higher in America, depending on where you get your data.
So Piers has made an error, but it doesn’t destroy the thrust of his argument.
Is America safer than Britain?
Critics have seized on the supposed fact that overall crime, and violent crime in particular, is apparently higher in Britain than in America.
The logic of this, presumably, is that the kind of tight gun laws that came in over here after the 1996 Dunblane tragedy haven’t made the country safer in general.
Much of the commentary on this appears to have been inspired by this 2009 report in the Mail, which quoted statistics circulated by the Conservative Party, then in opposition.
The article claimed that there were 2,034 violent incidents per 100,000 people in the UK and only 466 in America, a “fact” repeated endlessly on the internet in recent days. But the comparison is a meaningless one.
Some crimes are easy to compare on a country-by-country basis. Murders are fairly easy to count – you’re either dead or alive.
But what other incidents count as “violent crime”? Different countries will have different opinions about this, and the percentage of crimes that are actually reported to the police will vary wildly too, making international comparisons difficult.
The FBI – the source of that “466 in 100,000″ figure (the number is actually from 2007) – defines violent crime as murder, manslaughter, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.
The British definition is much looser, including all crimes against the person and sexual offences, hence the much higher number.
And lumping all these various crimes together to get a total of “violent incidents” means that a murder and an assault count as one incident, making no allowance for the difference in seriousness.
So the article asks us to believe that Britain is more violent than South Africa, when nearly 17,000 people were murdered in South Africa in 2009 compared to fewer than 800 people here.
For what it’s worth, the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime has had a stab at producing comparable crime stats for different parts of the world.
The latest figures suggest that the burglary rate in England and Wales is about 35 per cent higher and there are more than double the number of assaults per 100,000 residents.
Your chances of being robbed are about 20 per cent higher in England and Wales than in the US. But the figures for rape are almost identical, and you are massively more likely to be murdered in America, whether a gun is involved or not. The overall homicide rate is about four times higher.
More guns, more crime?
Not necessarily.
It’s true that America tops the Small Arms Survey’s world chart for gun ownership, with 88.8 guns per 100 residents. And the firearm murder rate is higher than in any other country in the developed world.
That’s a correlation, but it doesn’t prove causation. And this is a problem that dogs most attempts to infer definite conclusions from any of the many statistics on guns.
It’s equally true to say that Britain’s tighter gun laws didn’t lead to a significant drop in gun crime. And that the US gun murder rate is falling, even as gun ownership rises. But again, this doesn’t prove cause and effect.
We don’t know what would have happened if things had been different and we don’t know how far other factors are affecting crime.
Perhaps there would have been an explosion of gun crime here in the absence of the Dunblane laws. Maybe the rise in America’s prison population has led to a drop in violence on the streets and gun ownership has nothing to do with it.
This is why most major academic studies in the US have come to the same conclusion: that there isn’t enough evidence to say one way or the other that gun control laws will lead to fewer deaths.
The gun control debate will rage on in the US, but it’s unlikely that either side will be able to prove their case with statistics alone.
Why do Americans think they have the right to carry guns?
The second amendment to the US constitution, adopted in 1791, states: “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the Right of the People to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
Gun lobbyists tend to focus on the second half of this sentence, rather than attempting to explain how the millions of individuals who own guns in the US constitute “a well regulated Militia”.
While trying to get into the heads of the men who wrote the Bill of Rights in the late 18th century might seem like an odd thing to do, that’s exactly what the US courts have to do when they rule on changes to gun laws.
When the second amendment was written, the big fear was that a federal US government backed by a standing army might become too powerful, and start to trample the rights of individual states.
Many of the founding fathers of the country thought the best defence against the kind of “tyrannical government” that still held sway in Europe was the widespread availability of weapons among civilian, who could band together to defend themselves from an oppressive government.
But what George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and the others had in mind by a “well regulated Militia” is up for debate. Did they really envisage private citizens building personal armouries at home?
In 1939 the Supreme Court said the second amendment did not guarantee the individual householder’s right to own whatever guns they liked outside the context of a militia.
The court only changed its mind in 2010 when it ruled in the case of that the US constitution could now be used to prevent states from banning handguns.
The ruling was passed by the narrowest of margins – five votes to four – with the four dissenting judges calling the majority decision a “dramatic upheaval in the law”.
So the idea that the US bill of rights has always given individual citizens the inalienable right to own whatever weapons they like is untrue. This is a highly controversial interpretation of the constitution and has only been good law for the last few years.
On the other hand, it’s equally clear that the right to bear arms wasn’t just about defending yourself, protecting your property from burglars, or even seeing off British redcoats.
It was specifically designed to give the general population the ability to fight an enemy within.
Thomas Jefferson said: “The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.”
And James Madison, the main author of the US constitution, wrote: “The governments of Europe are afraid to trust the people with arms. If they did, the people would surely shake off the yoke of tyranny.”
So when conservative commentators like Ben Shapiro talk about armed resistance to tyrannical government, this may sound to non-American ears like the stuff of extremist conspiracy theory, but it is entirely in keeping with the historical context of the US constitution.
By Patrick Worrall


There are 50 comments on this post
Where are the shooting injuries rather than deaths accounted for? Where are the shooting deaths and injuries by officers of the law accounted for? Where are accidental deaths and injury accounted for?
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Most of this article is well-balanced. However, there is a crucial fault in the Jefferson quote about guns being used as last-resort protection against tyrranical govt.
This is a particular home-spun fantasy of the far right, propogated by the likes of Ben Shapiro and Alex Jones, but this is NOT something Jefferson actually said. The main protection was against foriegn invading forces, such as the British Redcoats.
The link to where this quote has been debunked is here:
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/01/11/opinion/jefferson-fake-gun-quotation
Also, you can find out why I know so much about this debate from my blog and book-links here: http://booksand-ebooks.com/blog.html
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There are many issues here. However it is like an alcoholic arguing aginst minimal alcohol pricing. Probably not the best person to ask. The majority of gun owners are men. It is still a minority of the population that own one. So the majority dont interpret the minorities interpretation of a several century old constitution.
Of those that do own guns the average number s eight. Surely this is a fetish not a need to ” defend your family”
As for keeping you safe” or “defending your home” the reality is they do the opposite. You are more likely to be killed . kill someone, commit suicide, accidentally shoot or be responsible for domestic violence if you own a gun. Guns change how people behave. Studies have shown gun owners more likely to drive aggressively, accelerate arguments and get arrested.
The one study quoted showing the huge defensive powers of guns is extremely flawed. The major factors regarding crime in USA v UK is flawed as the UK using a crime survey and the USA only reported crimes.The fact their murder rate is four times higher and there are almost 3 million in prison seems contrary to the fact the USA is safer. As for overthrowing the government…
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Cathy/Patrick,
Plainly, Yanks love guns more than children. Or their cultural paranoia is greater than their care for their children. Either way, the USA is a nation not yet civilised.
What a dreadful tragedy for them as well as the rest of the world. Gun fanaticism governs their entire approach to life, including their constant interference in the affairs of other countries. You need only check the facts of drone attacks and innocent civilian deaths authorised by Obama and the other war criminals in his cabinet. My guess is they will do virtually nothing to rid themselves of this internal dry rot eating away at their “ethos,” such as it is.
If it were otherwise, there would be wholesale revulsion against the mere notion of individual gun ownership in a civilised society. There would be no need for Obama’s fiddling around in semantics.
Who can forget Nancy Reagan saying, “I only have a teeny weeny li’l gern” – presumably to kill teeny weeny l’il people. Small wonder years ago John Freeman said the US had mortgaged its soul to psychiatrists.
Why be surprised when the rest of the planet regards the USA as an out of control rogue nation?
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Right, we (yes, I am American) are not civilized because we own guns for our personal protection. Perhaps you, in your all knowingness, have failed to understand that guns are used 2.5 million times per year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year—or about 6,850 times a day. This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives. What you also failed to mention is how much more likely you are to be stabbed in the UK than shot in the US. So while you Neanderthals are running around knifing one another, someone should have a look at your meaning of civilized. Knives… really? You do realize it’s 2013, right? Better break out your suit of armor and mount that horse, staying mobile may be the only thing to save you until your country can become more urbane.
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How much more likely are you to be stabbed in the UK than shot in the US?
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“It’s equally true to say that Britain’s tighter gun laws didn’t lead to a significant drop in gun crime.”
It’s worth saying that the 1997 ban only affected a very small number of people- apparently only 60,000 individuals, or 0.1% of the population- coming as it did on top of already very strict gun laws. It would be very surprising if such a marginal shift caused a significant effect either way.
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It’s not gun laws that has to change in the US; it’s gun attitudes.
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The problem with the issue – as far as one can tell from US media & blogs – is that, like too much in US politics, it is argued in black and white terms, with even the slightest suggestion of compromise being derided, often in extremely unpleasant terms. It is symptomatic of what appears to be a fundamental divide in US politics and society – with a vanishing centre of common sense or compromise. I fear that unless something truly awful happens – and plainly Sandy Hook wasn’t enough – the US’s decline will be hastened by internecine strife leading to government paralysis.
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As an American, the second Amendment is very important, however, that doesn’t mean that individual states can’t put reasonable restrictions on firearms. The trouble is that some states New York Massachusetts, etc. make it so difficult to obtain a gun it scares the rest of the “gun friendly” states so the NRA fights them on everything.
That being said there will always be a downside to any right or privilege. These deaths tragic as they are will happen again. The question is: Do we take away rights of the vast majority of law abiding citizens because of criminals who don’t adhere to the laws anyway and a small minority of mentally ill people? We have religious freedom but every now and again we get a David Koresh or Jim Jones. We have the privilege of driving but we accept there will be between 30 and 40 thousand deaths every year.
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Excellent article that tries to move the debate away from the black and white ‘stats’ argument. I would have to draw the same conclusion as Michael Moore’s ‘Bowling for Columbine’ that gun ownership is not the sole reason for the high homicide rate in the US. There is something cultural about the USA that does not seem to value life like we do in Europe. Having lived in the states I definitely felt that if someone is seen to have done something wrong that the general consensus was that they deserved what they got including being killed by the state. There was particular vehement attitude to those that may be seen to be in the underclass as it was their fault that they were in that situation. This view seemed to generate a very divided view of society one that really devalued the sense of life as precious. This view was not universally held but it certainly was common enough, to make me feel uncomfortable when these views were shared. I am not saying that this is the only reason why the US has such a high homicide rate but it goes beyond the availability of arms.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrngdgUixYg
Sandy Hook tribute pages up 4 days before shooting?
Hoax pushing to disarm law abiding citizens.
All mass media even Channel 4 News seems to subjective.
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“What you also failed to mention is how much more likely you are to be stabbed in the UK than shot in the US”
Tell us, then. I venture it’s not that much more or else the murder rate wouldn’t be so different.
David Frum is pro-gun but thinks that 2.5m figure for self-defense is rubbish. It includes data from 1981.
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/30/opinion/frum-guns-safer/index.html
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One of the main reasons often quoted is the need to have firearms to protect US citizens against a ‘tyrannical government’.
Perhaps we should this examine this as a practical scenario. In the UK if the government suspects that you have done something wrong they will soon send the Police to inquire into your conduct or arrest you, I assume it’s the same in the US. Therefore, if the US legislation passes a law that you are in default of, and you consider it an example of a ‘tyrannical government’ and that you are not prepared to accept, then the only reason you hold your firearm is to resist (unlawfully) arrest by shooting at the Police when they come for you.
Alternatively, if you are not prepared to wait, and you decide to take affirmative action against this law that you disagree with, please consider the following. In the US you don’t live in North Korea, you live within a working, living, and breathing democracy. If a law is passed democratically by a majority of representatives elected by your fellow citizens that you disagree with, and you oppose this by force of arms, does this not make you a terrorist?
Using a firearm for real is not like using it on…
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So well put. I have always thought this a pathetic excuse. Shows that people who believe this myth paranoiac in the extreme. As if the US people would ever allow non-democratic government. Is a totalitarian regime just going to land their UFOs and take over. Twilight zone too popular with pro-gun folk/lobbyists.
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Another figure is that 85% of all mass killings happens in the US, 7% in the UK and the rest of the world shares of 8%. I think both countries have plenty of reasons to think about why they are so violent (including being stabbed as pworrall already said).
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Maybe we should ask what the USA could learn from its northern neighbour?
Canada has a similar rural spread and a much much smaller population and similar hunting culture. And Canada is parallel in much else besides. [except for constitution]
Average gun murders in Canada over last five years is 195 pa. A lot less than the US
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From the brief research I just did, there were 200 homicides using knifes in the Uk in 2010.
in the USA in 2004 (most recent I could find, and it was a lower rate than the other years before) There were 8000 hand gun homicides. Slightly over 2000 other gun homicides and slightly fewer than 2000 knife homicides. If we take the US population to be approximately 6 times the uk then that means per head there are approximately at least 1.5X more knife murders than in the US than the UK. with huge gun killing rates on top. So as far as I can see Chris Patterson is on another planet.
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Uk population is now 62million. The USA has 315 million. That’s FIVE times the UK population.
US territory is 35 times that of the UK. So our density of population is seven times that of the USA. So there are many more remote rural folks. And a lot more hungry wild animals too.
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Good on you for finding that out. I was going to reply to him to say that to say that shooting someone with a gun was more urbane is madness? It is just wrong to kill someone whether it be with a knife, gun, baseball bat, whatever. He’s pro “sophisticated” murder! Makes you realise that they may share a common language, but the divide is getting bigger (two nations divided by a common language). Very sick mindset that is spreading as quickly as the increase in arms sales. Frighening in the extreme. I will never visit the US now as I would be too frightened of being shot in a mall, cinema, wherever.
Makes me mad that a “so-called” Christian nation believes it is their right to bear arms. How many more children have to die – let alone public figures/civil rights figures/Presidents?!
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http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp
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Government has been the most prolific murderer in history. Looking at the facts and not being just emotional about it,its governent that needs to have its power of the gun controlled. It is only a well armed populous that can keep history from repeating itself. Here is a detailed University study of Murder By Government.
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM
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Governments have been responsible for millions of deaths due to wars. Whilst I am not sticking up for war or warmongers, nations need to defend themselves against others – WWII being the best example. But governments in the democratic west at least, are not going to start shooting their citizens willy nilly in the streets. We are not Syria or Libya.
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One of the angry denunciations of Piers Morgan was that banning ‘our guns’ would bring back a 1776 moment – an allusion to the War of Independence. Gun lobby here (USA) argue that ‘King George’ prevented Americans from being armed.
Here’s the truth:
“An examination of the Colonial statutes reveals that, contrary to Bellesiles’s claim of distrusted and disarmed freemen, almost all colonies required white adult men to possess firearms and ammunition. Some of these statutes were explicit that militiamen were to keep their guns at home; others imply the requirement, by specifying fines for failing to bring guns to musters or church.
Colonies that did not explicitly require firearm ownership passed laws requiring the carrying of guns under circumstances that implied nearly universal ownership”.
In a frontier State, it’s reasonable for individuals to arm themselves to resist attacks by rival colonialists, native americans and criminals. That reason h largely passed, but the 2nd Amendment has not ben qualified to cover today’s circumstances.
Most Americans agree that we need to keep guns from dangerous people. And that assault weapons are not needed.
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I agree with the author that people infer a conclusion from the many statistics on guns in order to support what they ‘believe’ might be the solution. There is no real evidence or guarantee that tough guns laws which will lead to less guns in the hands of citizens infers less crime. Guns have been around for a lot longer than the recent shootings in schools. You take away the right to bare arms, you take away our moist basic freedom to be able to protect ourselves against other citizens and a corrupt government. There have been many homicides involving guns, so are we going to make kitchen knives illegal? I mean everyone has one!
Now if one needs to go through a psyche evaluation before having the right to purchase a gun might be a better approach. Further, we ought to look into the reason why we have so much more shootings which I assume is a mental breakdown where it leads one not to feel no sensitivity towards their fellow man. What is it that causes one to loose sensitivity towards others lives? I am not saying it will be easy or even possible to find out, but we should put our energy into what is actually causing one to conduct such acts rather then taking away a tool…
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towards the end of the 1st paragraph, I meant there have been many homicides involving knives, not guns.
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I do not usually do this but as far as I can see Americans are saying they want Guns to protect themselves! Against what the only two times in the USA history they got attacked from the Air therefore the only people Americans have to protect themselves from is Themselves and with all due respect that is stupid. The second point is that their Constitution states you can bear arms as a Militor not Individually so all in all the Americans deserve each other if a Child’s life is worth less than a Gun then well done America
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I totally agree with you Alan.
Bob, we have a lot of similar madness in our society too, but it doesn’t make me want to go out an arm myself up with guns that spew out bullets at up to 100 a minute. That would REALLY be mad. Killing is wrong full stop and there can be no justification. Mind you I can’t even kill a spider and I don’t eat animals. Wouldn’t the world be a better place, if we stopped being paranoiac and put out only good deeds and thoughts into the world. I was speaking to an American lady who constantly bought up her religion to the point where I felt she was indoctrinated. Then she turned around and told me she had guns in her house (with small children that she is home educating) and I just found it impossible to get my head around. I wonder if they will ever realise the oddness of their thinking. Get rids of guns = tons fewer murders, no more paranoia – simples!
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The US Supreme Court has ruled that the 2A is an individual right. It seems quite odd to me that the rest of the Bill of Rights would contain individual rights, except for the 2nd.
Before you go off on “well regulated”, in the time the Bill of Rights was written it meant to be well equipped and trained.
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Americans must not relinquish their guns, it’s their only defence against an establishment gone mad, and this is what the second amendment was created for.
Mad? Yes, mad. It’s the only way to describe an establishment that lets off bankers & politicians responsible for the global financial crisis, whilst at the same time threatening a talented 27 year old with 50 years imprisonment for downloading an academic journal database, resulting in his eventual suicide.
An establishment that almost killed 3 innocent people after one of their own turned against them, pumping over 60 rounds into a car bearing no resemblence to Dorners – proving that LAPD considers ordinary people expendable in emergencies.
A justice system that has lost all sense of proportion in sentencing. A government that does the same things whether they’re Republican or Democrat. A financial system that rewards wrong-doing whilst punishing whistle-blowers. A legal system that allows people to patent everything from software to actions. A healthcare system that refuses to treat the vulnerable. An intelligence agency that Is allowed to kill US citizens using remote-controlled drone strikes.
If I were…
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I’m sorry but you say that americans need their guns very briefly, and explain this by slagging off your country for 3 paragraphs. the fact that America has a bad healthcare system has nothing to do with Gun control…
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Guns are my lunch. Only the ocean-dwellers can fragrance.
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Gun control works,just look at Britain own number’s from 09.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html
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“Britain’s tighter gun laws didn’t lead to a significant drop in gun crime.”
This is because Britain did not have an American style gun culture BEFORE the laws were tightened. After the so called ban in the nineties hardly anyone in Britain owned a gun. Prior to the ban hardly anyone owned a gun. nothing changed.
The 2nd amendment was drawn up at a time when a firearm was a musket or flintlock pistol, rather different from assault rifles!
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Good on you for pointing that out! We have NEVER had a gun culture here and long may that remain the case. I don’t think anyone should have guns other than our police and armed forces and those that are licensed to carry out animal population culls. We are not a paranoiac nation who fears our government or has a lunatic survivalist fringe.
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Might ‘gun culture’ also reflect geography and historical origins?
If you agree that such issues might be material, you may also reflect on the differences between the USA and the UK. We’re on a small, mostly densely populated island; the USA shares a vast territory and land borders to the North & South. Consequently, it’s feasible to restrict gun ownership here, but not in the USA.
Presently there are 300 million guns in the USA – how could anyone dispose of enough of them to make a difference?
Turning to culture, parts of the USA still vaguely acknowledge its civil war when Federal Government went to war with dissenting States. The outcome was that anti-slavery laws were imposed (quite rightly, I believe) by unrelenting force of arms.
Moreover, there is a residual belief – fostered by Hollywood etc – that Government and others are some tyrannical conspiracy (the Bourne series is an illustration of that culture). Consequently, minorities of Americans have adopted a (perhaps) fantasy that they need to hold guns to resist criminals and potential tyrants. Most Americans do not share those cultures.
In short, comparisons between the USA and us are not truly…
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Our 1st Amendment was written before TV, the Internet, email or any form of electronic communication too. Do we not have a right to exercise free speech through these mediums as well?
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In reply to Hinck’s question. The short answer is “no”.
Further detail is:
First amendment has been clarified by your Supreme Court to restrict incitement, false statements of fact, obscenity and child pornography, threats and copyright material. Nor is advertising exempted by the amendment. Our chitchat is protected (but maybe not twitter?) except where that chat comes from a government supported or controlled sources; which, of course includes mail, airwaves, military, the internet etc.
Which also explains why extreme violence is allowed by the 2nd, but bear breasts are not.
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The 1st Amendment was drawn up when parchment, quill pens and your unassisted voice were the only means of communication.
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That’s not good enough and no excuse is. There are no problems only solutions.
If the USA could land humans on another planet back in 1969, they can surely find a way to resolve this issue.
Imagine say, if some terrorists murdered thousands of innocent citizens by flying some planes into the sides of a couple of sky-scrapers, would the US just lie-down and take that? Put guns in the hands of millions of potential mad men though and might be a different scenario. Life is becoming cheap even in the US it would seem. Those who live by the sword ……. may very well end up being cut in half by a hail of bullets.
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Jan, the USA has a written constitution that is interpreted by the Supreme Court.
The US Supreme Court ruled in 2008 (G W Bush selections) that the 2nd Amendment only applies to the Federal Government. The feds may not restrict the ‘right to bear arms’. That right lies with each of 50 States.
That ruling also explains why Obama & Bloomberg are seeking to restrict rights for only some guns and not all guns.
Imagine the folks in Wyoming trying to understand that they have to restrict their own hunting & self-protection rights because of some problem in far-off Connecticut or south-side Chicago? If you can imagine that, you may understand why there’s such a gun problem in a vast federal State.
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Hi Andrew
I know what you mean – it would be tough, but something must be done, otherwise the slaughter of thousands of innocents each year will continue. My point is that if there is a problem – and I’ll admit, it is a sticky one – if US citizens and their Government work at it some and then really work at it, a solution could be found. If that solution means that people living in remote or wild areas can apply for licences for hunting rifles, then so-be-it. I doubt anyone could object to that. No one should be allowed to have guns spewing out 100 bullets a minute. We live in a sad, sick world, let us band together and try to change it before we run out of time.
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I see why the American people believe its necessary to bear arms to defend their family and property, here in the uk if you do exercise that right using any any form of weapon you are going to prison, end of story, I believe this is wrong you should be able to defend yourself. But I also believe that owning a gun does not bring safety to your home or your family, or to society in general.
To Chris Paterson who made a comment about it being more likely to get stabbed in the uk than shot in America followed by a load off crap about” suits of armour and lances” and our country becoming more “urbane”.
My friend I say to you if that’s how you think let me correct you first of all you have enough space in youre country for you all to stay far enough away from each other so you don’t piss each other off and start shooting each other ,we on the other hand live on a small island where space is at a premium and have done for many centuries before the USA existed and still have never gone around slaughtering one another. Or provided the means to do so in a shop on a street corner for anyone who can provide the right documents and pay.
Does shooting someone with a gun make you…
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…more civilised than stabbing someone? I think not.
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I hate violence of any kind so certainly would not condone stabbings, but someone were to run amok with a knife, he is unlikely to be able to kill 20 or thirty plus people before being overpowered. You can’t overpower someone with a gun spewing out 100 bullets an hour.
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In light of the recent outrage in Boston, the whole city and its environs on lock-down, 3 dead and almost 200 injured …. well get this America … while you were funding the IRA we the British were bombed,killed and maimed on our mainland – no place was sacred .. …and I’m Irish … not your ridiculous 4th/5th/6th geration Irish – proper Catholic Irish …and you raised money,smuggled arms and bankrolled the scum that call themselves the IRA … my grandfather was the IRA and was also in the Royal Navy none of them at that time could have envisaged what it would and did become …7th/8th generation Irish who wouldn’t know a shillelagh from a shamrock, trying to hold on to the “Auld Country” and kill Britons …and you call yourselves civilised when you can have media saturation about 3 dead at the Boston Marathon .. but hey – ho some nutter has shot up a school and killed 20 children but he had a right to “bear arms” … America – you are seriously flawed ( and as an irish living in Britain …I have been to 32 of your 50 States … probably/possibly more than your average Yank) you need to take a long inward look at yourself … and ponder this question … “The 2nd…
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I love the screeches of it’s for the children from the left when there’s about a million abortions a year in the US. I don’t care what you do with your body, it isn’t my business but you might want to check your hypocrisy levels.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/gosnell-trial-witness-baby-abortion-survivor-was-swimming-toilet-trying-get-out
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