FactCheck: Work experience or slave labour?
“There is a work experience scheme…it’s voluntary.”
“All of the evidence we can see is that this does better than simply leaving people on JSA. It actually helps more young people get into work.”
“There is no circumstance in which we would mandate any individual to take part in work activity for a big company, that doesn’t happen.”
Chris Grayling, 24 December 2011
The background
There’s been a lot of anger, and a lot of confusion, about so-called “workfare” in recent weeks.
A string of large companies have scrambled to distance themselves from accusations that the Department of Work and Pensions (DWP) is using the unemployed as a source of free labour for its cronies in the private sector.
In an interview with the BBC on Friday morning the Employment Minister, Chris Grayling, defended the government’s flagship welfare-to-work policies.
Are young people really being forced into doing slave labour at greedy supermarkets? Or should Britain’s unemployed by grateful for the chance to do valuable work experience?
The analysis
Mr Grayling was keen to make a distinction between two different kinds of work placement that the Department of Work and Pensions offers.
The first one is called work experience and is available for people aged 16 to 24 who are claiming jobseeker’s allowance.
Unemployed people do unpaid work at one of hundreds of private sector employers who have signed up to the scheme, while continuing to get their benefits and travel expenses.
Mr Grayling insists the scheme is “entirely voluntary”.
That’s technically true, on the face of it, but it comes with two heavy qualifications.
Firstly, you do run the risk of having your benefits stopped if you agree to do a placement, then change your mind after a “cooling-off” period of one week.
So much like the French Foreign Legion, the scheme is “entirely voluntary” to enter, but there may be an element of compulsion later on if you decide to leave.
And there have been unproven allegations that Jobcentre staff are misleading claimants into believing that the work experience scheme is in fact mandatory.
Cait Reilly, the unemployed graduate who is taking the government to the high court over workfare, says she was told her benefit payments could be stopped if she refused to work at Poundland, and wasn’t told about the cooling-off period.
Mr Grayling said the government disputes the facts of Ms Reilly’s case, and we’ll have to wait for the judge’s ruling before we know what the rights and wrongs of it are.
Does work experience help you get a job?
Mr Grayling told the BBC: “11 weeks after the first day of their work experience, around 50 per cent are off benefits and we know that a large number of those young people actually are staying on in employment with the employers who give them the placement.”
The figures that back this up are here. This is an early study on a very small group of people (1,300) who went on the work experience scheme just after it was set up last year, but it does prove Mr Grayling right, in that 47 per cent of the claimants were off benefits 11 weeks after they started the placement.
Of course, that doesn’t mean that all those people got a job – it could be that some returned to education, started a training scheme, or just dropped out of the benefits system.
And the obvious next question is: how many of them would have come off benefits anyway if they hadn’t done work experience?
The Centre for Social and Economic Inclusion says the average rate at which people come off benefits with no intervention is almost exactly the same, suggesting work experience has had “no additional impact on the speed at which young people leave benefit, and may have actually led to them spending longer on benefit”.
This may not be an entirely fair comparison, as those being offered work experience could be people likely to find it harder than the average jobseeker to get work, but it’s not a good start for the government.
Mr Grayling claims that feedback from employers suggests “a large number” of those young people have indeed been offered permanent jobs with the firms who gave them work experience, but DWP say they are not ready to publish data on this.
FactCheck approached a number of companies who are offering voluntary work experience, but only two were prepared to share some numbers with us. Tesco said they’ve given 1,500 young people work experience, and of those, 300 have been given permanent jobs so far.
And the world’s biggest fast food chain told us: “In the last 12 months, close to 200 people have had a work placement and approximately one in four have gone on to a permanent job with McDonald’s.”
So that’s a 20 per cent and 25 per cent success rate respectively for the two firms good enough to talk to us. Of course, it’s possible that people went on to get jobs at different firms after completing work experience.
What about Mr Grayling’s claim that no “big company” would benefit from people who are being made to participate in Mandatory Work Activity?
This is entirely separate from the “voluntary” work experience programme, and sees problem jobseekers ordered to do 30 hours of unpaid work a week for a month, on pain of losing their benefits.
Mr Grayling said the work “might be helping a local sports club with youth outreach work, it might be environmental work”, adding: “There is no circumstance in which we would mandate any individual to take part in work activity for a big company. That doesn’t happen.”
We found this answer to a Freedom of Information request from December which strongly suggests Mr Grayling may be wrong on this one.
DWP use the magic word “mandatory” in the document and they name a number of high street giants including Poundland, Wilkinson’s, ASDA and Pizza Hut as “current delivery placements”.
A spokesman said: “Essentially the Minister was being asked and was talking about the work experience schemes run by JCP – for which his comment is accurate.
“We don’t mandate people to work experience through the Work Programme – we mandate people to take part in the Work Programme. It’s black box so providers have the freedom to suggest work experience if they think it is useful for the person claiming.”
You can read a transcript of Mr Grayling’s interview here and decide for yourself what the minister “was being asked and was talking about”, and whether we’re right to award him a Fiction rating for that last claim.
By Patrick Worrall





There are 40 comments on this post
None of this says how those chosen for work experience during January to March 2011 were selected, or whether comparable people who weren’t on work experience stayed on benefit for a longer or shorter time. For all we know, workfare harms job prospects.
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No surprise whatsoever that a minister in this despicable coalition government got his ‘facts’ wrong.
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O For Goodness Sake! Clearly, no Minister, let alone the charmed-life Grayling has ever been on the receiving end of the Job Centre or A4E or any of the other processing units that unemployed people are subjected to. Job centre workers routinely lie – but they’re not going to put it in writing, are they, so Cate Reilly is going to find it really difficult to prove that she was lied to.
Graylings mealy-mouthed evasions are pathetic. Millionaires who’ve inherited or married into money yapping about ‘job snobs’ is pathetic – or rather it would be pathetic if it wasn’t so abusive. Send a few under cover reporters into job centres and make them stay there rather than being well-qualified, articulate and with clothes and shoes that aren’t from Primark, until they’re referred to one of the Welfare to Work programmes to see just how helpful they are.
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My son was unemployed for a lengthy period of time. He has a PhD in biology and an MSc in IT. He has many years experience in both biology and IT.
He applied for hundreds of jobs, and of those who bothered to reply he was simply rejected. The local agncy used in this area by the government to find work for the unemployed told him exactly what the more professional employment agencies and that was that no employer would consider him because his CV was excellent, he was over-qualified and not what employers were looking for, that’d he be judged someone who was capable of standing up for himself and not be pushed around.
I wonder, would my son, who is therefore deemed more difficult to find work for be helped by a stint stacking shelves or lifting litter in the park on any of these work schemes?
Would my son be helped by their training courses? The JobCentre did pressure him continually to go on a ‘scheme’ to learn to use a computer. ‘Would a scheme to help joiners learn how to use a hammer also be of use?’ was his usual response to such nonsense.
He’s now gone to work in Finland. I doubt he’ll ever be back.
I am left with no son, and wondering is Great…
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Workfare is a UK breach of our Treaty obligations under Article 23 of the United Nations’ Universal Declaration of Human Rights which states -
(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
(2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.
(3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.
(4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.
https://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml#a23
Our delicate Human Rights are being slowly and deliberately eroded by an uncaring government preying on the poor whilst our failing economy (and that of the World’s economy too) falters on the edge of a precipice.
Our fathers and grand-fathers fought and died for us to gain these fundamental Rights and now both Labour AND Tory Parties are working to destroy them in 21st Century Britain.
Is that “progress”?…
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Looking at the DWP ‘Work Programme Provider Guidance chapter 3′ there was a change made to the document on the DWP web site today. The effect of the change was to remove paragraph 14 and renumber all the following paragraphs. The original version can be seen in googles cache. Paragraph 14 originally read:
“Work Experience for JSA Claimants
14. Where you are providing support for JSA participants, which is work experience you must mandate participants to this activity. This is to avoid the National Minimum Wage Regulations, which will apply if JSA participants are not mandated.”
Latest version dated 2012-02-24 15:08:39
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/wp-pg-chapter-3.pdf
Original version dated 2011-08-17 15:17:36
cache:http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/wp-pg-chapter-3.pdf
Notice that the version number remained unchanged at V2.00. It certainly looks to me as if the policy has been changed and someone is pretending that it hasn’t.
When google next caches the site it will overwrite the original version so don’t hang around or the evidence will disappear.
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It’s about time someone told us some numbers that aren’t invented! Thanks!
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Regarding the statement “And there have been unproven allegations that Jobcentre staff are misleading claimants into believing that the work experience scheme is in fact mandatory.”
Correct me if I’m wrong, but this appears to now be proven: http://bit.ly/wMbjH6
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I’m all for long term ‘problem’ jobseekers being asked to contribute their efforts in Mandatory Work Activity within the Community for the Community. Why should they loaf about all day, sponging from the dwindling coffers of those who work too much? However, this practice of unpaid work must not ‘spill over’ into the Voluntary Work Experience Programme. This is a can of worms that needs a massive rethink. The principle must be recognised, but the practice needs more thought. We all know Chris Grayling was wide of the mark when interviewed on Radio 4, insisting that anyone joining the programme with Tesco could expect to be ‘mentored’ and experience different levels of work, including management experience! Come off it Chris! They’ll be stacking shelves! For nothing! I think the Government needs to examine if, in fact, this scheme contravenes the minimum wage rule. Even the long established practice of ‘internships’ are now being reconsidered in the light of recent new law on this subject.
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What gets forgotten when people say its voluntary is the pressure job seekers get from jobcentre+ advisors. you’re required to demonstrate that you are actively seeking work part of this will be pressure to take part in various schemes. any unwillingness to do so will be seen as not trying to find work and advisors will be qiick to point out they can and will cut your benefits. Advisors work to targets, how many people on each scheme will be a target they will have to meet
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The Government has shot itself in the foot and as always there is a mixture of truth and fiction here. Under the right conditions there is huge merit for anyone to have work experience. Clearly the benefits have not been sold to those young unemployed antagonistic to it, making it appear to be an unattractive proposition. The government needs to look back at failed attempts by prevoius governments to hide the rising unemployment with quick fix schemes. The route to work and the real work opportuniies for the country need to be clearly defined and easy for those young unemployed to understand so they can buy in to any scheme, see how it could fit into their future and feel part of it.
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nothing wrong with giving people work experience, placements, whatever- especially if the schemes are truly voluntary. but anyone volunteering for such a scheme, thereby showing their willingness and ability to get work, should be given the proper minimum wage. those who choose not to accept this opportunity can stay on the £67 odd benefits a week.
my issue is that if we start to accept a future of ‘well, people who really want to work do anything to get a job’, or ‘i came from a council estate and managed to make my way in the world-why can’t everyone else’, we are not so far away from offering a starving person a plate of food if they perform a criminal act (for example) and using grayling’s spurious argument- ‘it’s their choice’. very often, it is not- and this is the exact environment in which capitalist (greedy) businesses create a culture of discrimination and exploitation.
if you treat people with disdain and disrespect, you encourage them to behave as dishonourably as their prospective bosses might.
we have a bottom line. it is the minimum wage. let’s use it.
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Fair shout Sameena, but are we not there already in reference to your comment;
“…we are not so far away from offering a starving person a plate of food if they perform a criminal act..”
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Many moons ago (15 yrs ago) I’d been on similar scheme. Its not a bad stepping stone if you find the job you truly have an interest in. But whilst doing it,survival in the real world was very, very difficult.
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http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2012/02/24/dwp-rewrite-history-mandatory-work-disappears-from-the-work-programme-providers-guidance/
Look at the evidence on this excellent blog. Grayling has once more been economical with the truth.
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Yes I have just found that link myself. I hope this gets splashed across all the front pages tomorrow – surely hiding evidence like this must be a breach of parliamentary standards or something.
I too have saved the cached version in google docs.
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Thanks for your analysis guys!
For the time being the “voluntary” scheme should be amended as Tesco describes until a further review can take place. Govt should consider paying a minimum wage while freezing benefit payments instead I think. Also a body needs to be appointed to limit the possibility of “crowding out” conventional private sector jobs.
Also govt should also reconsider using Local Authorities and other public bodies to provide work experience, with Trade Unions helping to prevent excessive and inadvertent crowding out of public sector jobs.
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This documeent shows that Work experience was clearly NOT voluntary:
http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2012/02/24/dwp-rewrite-history-mandatory-work-disappears-from-the-work-programme-providers-guidance/
Work Experience for JSA Claimants
14. Where you are providing support for JSA participants, which is work
experience you must mandate participants to this activity. This is to avoid
the National Minimum Wage Regulations, which will apply if JSA
participants are not mandated.
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peeple on jsa have a miserable life as it is without worry of a brown letter coming through the post saying in gebberish your money stops for months over a little thing like not applying for a job that sometimes is impossible like a link written roughly. why not take peoples jobs who have 2 or even 3 god damn jobs eh? im sick of it.
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I have just watched the coverage on this issue. To date I ahve notbeen swayed either way. But the Minister seems to have his head somewhere the sun doesn’t shine. ASDA taking on people over Christmas for work experience – a joke. The reference letter was a disgrace and not worth the paer on whih it was written – the real demonstration of ASDA’s attitude to the program. It’s time the government realised that the way to getting people into work is to create real jobs.
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I have been out of a paid job for the majority of my adult life I have had 1 paid job that only lasted 5 months, I have a degree and a huge amount of work experiences but I still cannot get a job. I try so hard to get a job but know one will give me a chance its disheartening and apprenticeships are only aimed at 16-19 year old’s so I cant do that either because I’m 25 its getting to the point where I feel like giving up but I don’t like handouts and I don’t like seeing people who scrounge of the benefit system I hate been on jsa its degrading, I would love to work for customs ideally in the dog section I have a degree in crime and disorder and qualifications in animal care and management I have all my talent going to waste. I don’t know why I bothered going to uni to better myself because I’m not using the skills I have gained and I’m back where I started jobless. I have done everything possible and it has got me nowhere, I would even be a lorry driver but I cant afford driving lessons. I have done everything the job centre has asked of me and more I just don’t know what else I can do and it seems know one listens as each fortnight job centre staff only get 10 min to see…
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I was watching the news this evening and there was this person being interviewed by Jon Snow. She said why should she work if she did not like the job. They were talking about the scheme that offers work experience. She said that young people like to do creative jobs. Well excuse me!Are you scared to get your soft little hands dirty? answer to question 1. Why should the government pay JSA at all to anyone who is out of work but who will not work as per this person mentioned above, and who won’t work just because the work offered is “beneath her”, or boring, or not creative.She maintains she was a manager. so what happened? Did she get fired for snobbery? being a manager is beneath her too? answer to question 2. So old people are happy to do boring work are they?, or do they work because THEY HAVE TO SUPPORT THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES? AND HAVE A SENSE OF SELF RESPECT??? Wake up and grow up lady, this is the real world. Take you nose out of the sky and look around. This is not a rose garden and if you want to eat you have to work. simple.Show some character and work! you never know where it may lead you! Even my 10 year old son understands that. !
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Well said.
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Like a lot of the general public, I want recipients of my money to work for it. I had to.
I don’t really care much about the details of how, why or what, they have to do.
Furthermore, like most of the general public, I have been a massive net contributor to the tax system for decades. And I believe our views trump those who have contributed little or nothing.
They may well prefer to spend their days in bed or watching day time television. In this area, their preferences concern me very little.
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Capitalism carries the seeds of its own destruction. The relentless increase in efficiency has caused the number employed in manufacturing to decrease. The number employed in manufacturing dropped from 6.69m when Margaret Thatcher came to power, to 4.53m when Tony Blair entered Downing Street to 2.5m today.
In a situation where the productive output of one person can meet the needs of (in these days) 20 or more people, you need to find some way to pay the 19 who are not working. Up until now governments have relied on the service sector to soak up the unemployed. A lot of service sector jobs that I need, are paid for by the government or local authority out of taxes – education, health, police, roads etc, (all likely to be facing cuts). Yet the most lucrative service sector, banking, employs the fewest, is by far the most heavily subsidised and has escaped all cuts.
The call for ever more consumption, and ever more growth is not a long term solution. You cannot increase consumer demand indefinitely and you cant do it by cutting services in the way the current government is doing. We should recognise the inevitability of high unemployment, it cannot be prevented.
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Cathy Newman – thanks for grilling the red-faced Chris Grayling this evening. Please, will you be able to feature the news about “disappeared” paragraphs in DWP documents, which prove that work experience was NOT voluntary even if they’re now trying to claim it is
http://www.latentexistence.me.uk/dwp-edits-documents-to-pretend-work-placements-werent-compulsory/
Refs. also to other sites in comments above: Anton, reddevilip and arseneknows.
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It seems to me that if you keep raising the retirement age and the number of jobs in the UK remains about the same, then young people will be out of work. Contrary to popular opinion, no-one can ‘create’ jobs out of nowhere. Jobs have to be necessary functions and perform some purpose. I also believe that no-one, whatever their age, should be forced to work for nothing. If there is a job there to be done then someone should be paid a living wage for doing it.
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please mention this – I Am 20 years old and what that man said it total rubbish i was trying to join a training course to get qualifications so i have more of a chance when applying for a job, the jobcenter then put me on mandotory work programme and said if i go on my course they will sanction me for 2 months (which they did and i really did suffer i lost weight) they stopped all my money i couldnt carry on with my course as i was not eating i couldnt afford the travek costs now i am at college trying to get qualifications, the jobcenter treat you like there hostage they create personal terms that we have to stick to, they also try to do everything they can to get yo to raise your voice so they can remove you from the building, i have been sanction for jobcenter advisors mistakes and for other silly things any chance or reason they try to sanction people, the reason they are so serious about the work programmes is because for a short period it looks like on paper they are getting people off benefits and into work, i am 21 years old and i know this about the jobcenter so how that man expects anybody to believe him i was so furious as he spoke and he tried to avoid your points! Jay
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There are a number of National demo’s on the 3rd March and an ongoing online demo, including faacebook against workfare. Grayling says they are volentary yet his department letters say they are sanctionable, something obviously doesnt add up!
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“something obviously doesnt add up”
He’s a politician, therefore he’s lying. Now it adds up.
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Forced unpaid work still continues in the form of the mandatory work activity and community activity programme.
There is a word for mandatory unpaid work in the community, it is called a ‘community sentence’ and it is issued by the courts after due legal process. It is not issued by the DWP nor by their Work Programme providers. When did they acquire these powers to impose a judicial penalty? In fact it is more severe than any court could impose, (courts are limited to a maximum of 300 hours community service, this is 780 hours). When did unemployment become illegal in this country?
This is totally outrageous, you could burgle a premises and steal up to £20,000 and get less than half that as a sentence, yet 780 hour can be handed out just for being unemployed. What sort of country are we living in?
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Here is a document which hasn’t disappeared: http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd5/rports2011-2012/rrep791.pdf
If we start with the claim of 50% leaving workfare we can extrapolate using the figures provided.
68% get employment of which 60% get full time paid work ie 20% of the total!
Using similar calculations 9% get part-time paid employment and 5% self-employed.
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If you can confirm that Chris Grayling said that work ecperience was “entirely voluntary” that is a claim that is demonstrably false.
Sanctions became available immediately the confirmation letter was sent.
’34669 While an individual’s decision to participate in WE is purely voluntary, once they have agreed to take part in a specific placement and written notification has been given, then attendance and completion involves reasonable mandatory conditions and is subject to sanctions’
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When I did a work trial there was too many people from the work program that no one was going to get employed because they had plenty of free workers. When I 1st took the trial they said it would last 1 week and they then kept increasing it by a week then about a month later they sanctioned me for not attending my placement when I did and when I proved I was there they said it doesn’t matter.
Not only that but the work program wouldn’t help me at all any more.
Some thing I found out yet the Jobcentre deny it is that a lot jobs on their system don’t actually exist. For instance some jobs are posted more than once for the same position when only one or non positions exist, when asking and talking to staff about a job opening at the restaurant or shop they say “there is no such opening we don’t have enough hours to go around.” and when the job is opening is gone no one has filled the position.
There is also a lot of lies and hypocrisy at the Jobcentre. When it came to sanctions there were a lot of lies to cause people to miss their chance of appeal. Often staff would blame me for a mistake they made for instance they are late and ask me why I’m late when they where…
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Oftentimes we jump immediately to the conclusion. YES, slavery is very rampant in our surrounding and sometimes can’t control that even the people with high degree of education is a victim of it.
Before we conclude and find solution with the slavery issue let’s dig out where slavery start and how slavery affects people in our country and then proposed or suggest a solution for this problem. — http://slaverystart.com/ —
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Mandatory Work Activity
Most of the companys that run this seem to make the rules up as they go,they seem to be getting the money from it not the poor ones,could we not use this money to create jobs for people, help small companys etc.Im 46 and got around 30 years work experience do i really need more.There r alot of people on the dole that dont want to work,we all no that and yes they need to fix it not by slave labour.
My Mandatory Work Activity so far ive been told to be at a charity 2 times sofar and both times been told they have over booked.the guy walks up and wants to shake your hand which i decline both times and before i can say i have broken bones in my hand he goes into one what seems like 30 mins or so.Then i tell him i dont give consent for his company to have my private data and will not sign the form and this in no way stops me from doing this he seems to think it does and tells me he will report me so i say fine.the charity shop want to use me to do pickups and drop offs well thats what ive been told.I have told them already that i am disabled can not walk far because of my leg from a rta and right hand which the job centre knows about.
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“My Mandatory Work Activity so far ive been told to be at a charity…”
The essence of charity is that the money, goods or services are supplied voluntarily. It is a contradiction in terms to be ‘mandated’ to do charity work. Any ‘charity’ doing so is doing the equivalent of walking up to pedestrians in the street and mugging them at knife point for a donation.
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i will not work for free.
i am trying hard to find work but no one will give me a job because of my illness with i don’t get any extra moneys for. i want and need a job.
but not a chance that i will work for free. if they try make me do this, they will remember the real reason why we have benefits, and its not to help the unemployed.
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Some will get rich from this why we loose money,if u take every thing away crime will go up,when people can not pay there bills eat etc car crime will get high as its a easy target.Peoples homes will get done,the police get less and less.Job centres do not give u any help what so ever not once have they said to me heres a job why dont u apply for it.u fill out a form to say what u done to look for work i always do more than what they ask u to do and once i even put on there form, does anyone ever read this and i handed it over and she never said a word to me apart from fine sign here. Then theres the fake jobs i drove 100 miles filled out all the forms was told i would have work then 3 weeks later get told there is none.Simple there is just not enough work around.
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