Does number of Europeans here equal Brits abroad?
The claim
“A million people come from Europe but a million British people have gone into Europe. You know, there’s a lot of British people staying in Europe as well.”
Gordon Brown in conversation with Gillian Duffy, Rochdale, 28 April 2010
Cathy Newman checks it out
Gordon Brown’s encounter with Gillian Duffy hit the headlines almost entirely because he dismissed her off-camera as a bigot. But his exchange with the 66-year-old was controversial in itself. His claim that the numbers of EU citizens arriving here equals the number of Brits leaving for Europe sounded rather too convenient.
Those figures have actually been used before. In a speech on immigration at the end of last month the PM said: “Around 1 million citizens of other EU countries are now living and working in Britain – but there are also around 1 million Britons living and working in the rest of the EU.”
But knowing that Brown’s got his facts wrong before on immigration, FactCheck mounted a thorough investigation.
The analysis
A parliamentary written answer last October from the Cabinet Office estimates (see Table 4) that in 2007 1,588,000 foreign EU citizens were resident in the UK, with a margin of error of plus or minus 52,000. This is for people in the UK for more than a year.
So Gordon Brown’s own office has a latest figure of 1.6m EU foreigners living in the UK – well above the figure of one million given by the prime minister to Gillian Duffy. And the most recent available figure from the Office for National Statistics – for June 2008 to June 2009 – puts that figure even higher at 1,792,000, although this higher estimate includes temporary residencies.
Labour also pointed out to us that the 1.6m figure includes people from the Republic of Ireland – as does all the comparative data FactCheck has used in this article.
But what about Brits abroad?
There are 748,010 Brits living in the EU, according to Eurostat, the European Union’s official statistics office. They hold data on British citizens working and living across the 27 EU states, excluding Estonia, France, Greece and Cyprus, as countries provided the data on a voluntary basis.
By any analysis, France does have quite a high proportion of Brits living there so not including them would skew the data. The last available Eurostat data from 2005 says there are 133,678 ex-pats across the channel. A 2006 survey by the French National Institute of Statistics and Economic Studies (INSEE) found 136,353 British nationals plus 20,773 Britons who now have French nationality.
But some reports cite the figure to be as high as 250,000 . So, allowing for a margin of error, Brown could be in the ballpark with his estimate of a million UK citizens living and working across the European Union.
When FactCheck asked the Labour party to provide a source for Gordon Brown’s claims, they forwarded us a link to a report by the Institute of Public Policy Research (IPPR). The report – published in December 2006 - is entitled Brits Abroad: Mapping the scale and nature of British emigration.
The report shows that 1,010,644 Britons were living in other EU countries, as measured by “passport estimates based on IPPR calculations”. However, Labour points to the “Brits abroad for a year or longer” column in the research, which says there were 1.4m Brits in the EU, or 1.66m if you include Ireland. It’s worth noting that some of the data used to generate these totals was carried out as far back as 1996.
It is also worth noting that the IPPR “uprated” official data to take into account other factors such as non-registration. So while the Spanish census found in 2006 that there were 274,042 Brits living in Spain, the IPPR has put its estimate at 761,000. Labour has subsequently cited these “uprated” figures.
Dr Danny Sriskandarajah, one of the authors of the IPPR report, told FactCheck: “Eurostat figures are based on European censuses, which are notoriously bad. For example, the Spanish massively underestimate the number of Britons living there. Official statistics in migration are problematic in every way.”
The Labour Party added: “We would also highlight that the Prime Minister made clear that this was an estimate when he used these figures in his speech on 31 March – he uses the word “around” on two occasions.”
Cathy Newman’s verdict
Gordon Brown was in the right ballpark when he talked about 1m Brits living abroad. But he under-estimated the number of immigrants living here. Labour insists his overall point – that the number of EU citizens here equals the number of Brits in Europe – was correct.
But the party’s claim about the number of Brits abroad is based on jacked up – and somewhat dusty – data from its friends at the IPPR. Even if the think tank is right that up to 1.6m Brits live in the EU, that’s still tens of thousands fewer than the 1.8m EU citizens living here, even if some may be temporary residents.
So, to put it simply, there are more European immigrants arriving here than Brits leaving for Europe. What the PM told Mrs Duffy was not only out by several hundreds of thousands, but official statistics appear not to back up his claim.



There are 24 comments on this post
One should also note that our ex-chancellor Gordon confused the Debt with the Deficit at 2:03 in:
http://bit.ly/drsZrg
For readers also confusing them, the National Debt is the total amount of money is owed by the Govt whilst the Deficit is the increase in that debt every year. Try this on your credit card company: “I know I’ve maxed my card but I’m going to ask for smaller increases in my credit limit”…
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754k Brits live in Europe? I thought about 61 million Brits live in Europe…
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What would be more interesting would be the comparison of immigrants to the UK that are in work compared to British citizens living in Europe who are in work. Residency is one thing but being in work is another.
Gordon Brown actually uses the term living “and working”.
Incidentally it would be nice to know if the immigrants living in the UK and NOT working were claiming benefits comapred to ex-patriate British living in Europe who are not working and claiming reciprical beneifits. I suspect that we all know of Brits living in the Sun in countries like Spain who live on their pensions, return to the UK for medical treatment and live without encumbrance on the Spanish State.
Hardly a true comparison for like for like immigration versus emigration and the social impacts but it would put Gordon Brown’s put-down og Mrs Duffy into more context and reveal that the hypthesis of like-for-like benefits of net immigration versus net emigration is a fallacy.
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Doesn’t take into account all the seasonal workers in the EU from britain in holiday camps, ski resorts etc…they properly take jobs in the areas, pay tax in the uk and generally get paid buttons to do so, how do you think locals there feel?
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You’re seriously saying that the figures which have been “jacked” up are now unreliable and you’re going to quibble about tens of thousands which is well within a margin of error? This election gets more and more disappointing as it goes on.
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Sorry, don’t buy this.
Brown’s point was not “the numbers are exactly equivalent and that is the most important point”. The point is: there are lots of people here, and lots of people in the rest of the EU, and that shows the benefit to Brits of the free movement that brings non-Brits here.
To imply (as you do) that “more” immigrants here is bad because we’ve not sent as many “over there” has three problems:
1. Makes immigration a zero-sum game, which it isn’t
2. Implies economic equivalence between immigrants and emigrants. In fact a Polish plumber in London will pay more taxes towards public services than a retired marketing executive in the Gironde pays in to France.
3. (worst of all) plays the game the BNP and Mail want you to play, saying that immigration must be justified on the basis of some ludicrous numbers game, and implying that unless we “win”, then we’re losing out because “they” ought not to be here.
Don’t play that game. EU immigrants are here because we’re part of the EU, and it’s their right to be here, as it’s ours to be in France. When you use phrases like “there are 748,010 Brits living in the EU”, you should realise that there are actually more than 65 million Brits living in the EU, and most of them are here.
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And how many of those Brits living aboard are in the jobs market and how many have retired to their villas and houses in Spain and France?
Brown is comparing apples with pears, one is taking work from the local population, the other is adding to it by bringing money into the country.
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All of this is a bit unfair, there is no possibility of checking how many people have left UK so far. EU immigrants do not have responsibility to check themselves out so we can not really trust statistics. This immigration debate causes only harm. Why do the Brits hate Poles so much? I ma half Polish, married to a Brit and I have to say that I feel more and more uncomfortable in this country. People are rude to me, make racist comments and the media play a big role in creating anti-Polish views. It seems that the British society has forgotten about Poles who fought for Brittan in WW2, about fantastic Polish RAF pilots; we seem to forget that thousands of Brits have re-settled to Spain and France, and we need to remember that not only Polish immigrants come to Brittan. Nobody mentions about Pakistani, Indians, African (who even have no right to be here) or other European nations French, Slovakian, Estonian etc. The issue seems to be about Poles. Where is all the hate coming from? It reminds me a bit Nazi Germany where Jews were blamed for everything – Jews were stealing jobs and money from the Germans, Jews were the plague that needed to be dealt with! So Poles are now ‘modern Jews’ for the Brits and I wonder who is going to open the first concentration camp for the Poles?
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What rubbish, there are just TOO MANY immigrants of all nationalities from all countries, it’s not as though we have unlimited space and rescources. there should have been strict control as in other EU countries. Your stories about WW2 ignore this simple fact. Its about space not race.
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How about this parliamentary answer which indicates four and a quarter million (4,285,130) economic migrants have entered the UK since 2002, and it excludes perhaps 250,000 self-employed Romanians and Bulgarians?
17 Mar 2010 : Column WA193
National Insurance
Question Asked by Lord Laird
To ask Her Majesty’s Government which are the 20 countries whose nationals have been issued most national insurance numbers since 2002; and how many numbers have been issued to all foreign nationals since 2002. [HL2488]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Department for Work and Pensions (Lord McKenzie of Luton): The available information is in the tables.
National Insurance Number registrations to adult overseas nationals entering the UK since 1 January 2002-
Top 20 countries of origin
Poland
India
Pakistan
Australia
France
Slovak Rep
South Africa
Rep of Lithuania
China Peoples Rep
Germany
Italy
Portugal
Spain
Nigeria
Rep of Ireland
Philippines
Romania
USA
Bangladesh
Rep of Latvia
National Insurance Number Registrations to Adult Overseas Nationals entering the UK since 1 January 2002 -
All registrations
Number of National Insurance registrations
All nationalities 4,285,130
Notes:
1. Figures are rounded to the nearest 10.
2. Some additional disclosure control has been applied.
3. A very small proportion on national insurance number registrations are to overseas nationals registering whilst abroad.
4. Data is cumulative from 1 January 2002.
5. Registration date is derived from the date at which a national insurance number is maintained on the National Insurance Recording System.
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Fact check the fact Check the Guardian reports”Since the year 2000. It shows that 518,000 People came into the UK in the year to end June 2009 – down by 3% on the previous year. 317,000 people left the UK in the same year. Of that number coming in, 68,000 were from Eastern Europe (the A8 Accession countries), 58,000 left – the difference between the two (the migration balance) being 10,000.Since the year 2000. It shows that 518,000 People came into the UK in the year to end June 2009 – down by 3% on the previous year. 317,000 people left the UK in the same year. Of that number coming in, 68,000 were from Eastern Europe (the A8 Accession countries), 58,000 left – the difference between the two (the migration balance) being 10,000.” Plus Do your facts take into account workers who come for short periods for seasonal work?
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Surely this is not comparing like with like?
There is a big difference between, for example,young Polish manual workers coming here with families, taking jobs, taking up scarce local authority housing, putting strains on the capacity of schools and health services, etc, many receiving benefits, and relatively wealthy Brits buying houses in France and Spain for retirement,putting money into the economy.
It’s the costs and resources that matter even more than the numbers involved.
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Agree completely, exactly the point I was going to make, also importantly the number of Brits living in the EU is spread THROUGHOUT the whole European continent and not all on one small island as is the case with our million plus longterm “visitors”!
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The arguments about the numbers of immigrants in the UK compared with the numbers in the EU surely miss one important point. Whatever the true numbers involved, in the case of the UK they are ALL in this country. In the case of the EU the same number of British ex-pats are spread around the remaining countries of the EU. None on those countries has the same number of British persons living in them as we have EU citizens living here.
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As you rightly point out, migration statistics are of poor quality. You have chosen to interpret Brown’s answer to Mrs.Duffy as being about the stock of citizens who have migrated. If we look at the flows, measured by LTIM, we find that from 1991-1996, there was net immigration from the EU of 26,000: after Labour came to power through 2008 it totals 190,000 – however, that is more than accounted for by net immigration from A8 countries of 286,000 between 2004 (the year of accession) and 2008. We should give credit to Mrs. Duffy’s observance of flocking East Europeans – she’s right. An interesting feature is that between 1991 and 2008, there has been net emigration to the EU 15 of 74,000 who find the grass greener the other side of the Channel.
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While we are about it, let’s factcheck Nick Clegg’s claim that 80% of immigration comes from the EU. Again, from LTIM data, there is no year since 1991 in which net EU immigration accounts for more than 38% of total net immigration (that was 2007). If we look at the gross inward flow, it isn’t true either – again the high works out at 38% in 2007. I think this deserves a rating of FICTION.
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Brits mainly retire abroad; very few people retire to the UK, they come here to work. People who retire to Spain for example take their money there and spend i there, this helps the Spanish economy not draining it.
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Do you think the number of Brits living abroad will increase,as they continue to escape the financial mess this country is in?
We only stay here because of the family
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Is the attempt to preserve the old ‘English country garden’, no what is at the hart of peoples resentment towards ‘to many foreigners’ coming into to the UK. People just aren’t happy seeing flowers that don’t blend in with the scenery or some plants they may considered as weeds. Being caucasian, being able to speak fluent English and keeping a low profile tend to be the best ways of blending in. Come from America, Austrelia or Newzelland, then make yourself at home.
If your not prepared to clean out public toilets for a living then your argument that Poles are steeling all our jobs is flawed.
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Eastern Europeans should grow some pride, quit being the Mexicans of the EU and STAY HOME. They should quit having kids they can’t afford. There is NO excuse for Russians leaving Russia as that country is full of natural reasources. Shows how greedy the ruling class in Russia is: they hog up all the money and park their asses in Moscow.
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I think we all need to stop listening to the fear mongering going on by ukip, bnp, mail etc and get over it. If people are working in this country they will be living here and therefore spending there money here….rather than these retired Brits who take my tax money as a pension and then spend it in someone else’s country because its our god given right to live where we like,
Also all these people who say that the Brits are spread out across Europe…well duh so are all other counties, not everyone who leaves their own country in Europe move to England! Some French may live in Germany some Polish people may live in Spain! It’s all part of being part of Europe!!! So let’s stop the racist stuff, lets welcome anyone who wants to work…and maybe encourage some of our lazy Brits to go scrounge of someone else!
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