Rangers – join the debate
If you missed it earlier, you can scroll down to watch our online Rangers discussion from earlier today. Hope you find it of interest and for once, a little more about the light than the heat.
Fair play to Gary Calderwood for being his own man and coming on when RFC and many a fans’ organisation would not do so. I hope they now see they ducked an opportunity. Gary’s views on life in the fourth tier; hopes for the future; lessons learned and the state of MSM reporting of the Ibrox implosion are worth noting.
Lawyer Adam Morallee took a number of wider lessons from the game and cast an alarming look across the border at the state of things in the English game as well – currently very much under scrutiny from MPs who recognise the warning signs that Rangers provided for the game.
Read more: Rangers – the key questions
From journalist Stewart Weir, a crisp prescription for saving the game in Scotland well worth debating further and some bleak observations about lessons not learned in the past.
And across the panel, scathing criticism of the state of governance in the game in Scotland and more widely.
If you care – worth a watch!
The panel:
Gary Calderwood – Rangers fan
Stewart Weir – Football journalist
Adam Morallee – Sports lawyer
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There are 116 comments on this post
Why are they allowed to keep same name/badge/stars etc. Surely as a new club these would have to change under fifa rules as in what happened to Clydebank who became Airdrie UTD
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Because Rangers aren’t a new club, just run by a new company (or “newco”).
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The Rangers are most certainly a new club.
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Lol I would tell myself that too.
Rangers died. Liquidated. Everyone believes they are dead apart from some Rangers fans who have convinced themselves of the mythical kit kat company rule.
Life is so good without Rangers.
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UEFA also believe it as do the SFA,SFL and many other authorities.
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Believe what? That its the same club? No they don’t. UEFA have said nothing of the sort. Nor have the SFA, despite many invitations to do so.
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Suggest you look at UEFA site, Rangers are alive and kicking!
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I did. All references are to the club that went bust last summer.
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Suggest you have a closer look at the UEFA site. Gretna are still on it. Are they still alive as a club?
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Just looked at UEFA’s website:
Go to http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/index.html
Click on the “R” in the ‘Teams A-Z” row.
Look in the far right column. The only “Rangers” in Scotland is a woman’s team.
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So if they’re the same club, why don’t they pay the taxes they owe and the long list of small businesses they caught?
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Here in lies the problem.
The Rangers ARE a new club but their fans are unable or unwilling to accept it.
I get that, I really do. If my club had been liquidated I might have found myself believing similar flights of fantasy. Thankfully, my club have never been in that unfortunate position.
Rangers Football Club PLC, the “club”, are gone. History. Liquidated,
Get over it.
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To Gary Bradley. Rangers is not a new football club. The company owning Rangers has changed, that’s all. So no need to change the badge. Why does it matter to you?
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Where do you start with this garbage?
Clydebank FC are still ‘Clydebank FC’ and playing in junior football if I remember correctly.
Airdrieonians became Airdrie Utd, although the United was dropped from the name they are still known as Airdrie Utd.
Rangers keep the same name, badge etc as they are still the same club but with a new ‘company which runs it.
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If The Rangers were the same club, they would still be in the SPL, as there is no mechanism to relegate them or send them to the bottom tier. They went bust and ceased to exist, which is the only reason why there is no Rangers in the SPL.
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Gary Bradley : This only the company died argument has gone on long enough, player registrations are held by Football Clubs not a Holding Company. When Old Rangers died and New Rangers(Sevco) were incepted the players where asked if they wanted to transfer their regstistration to the NewClub. If it was the sameclub no trasnfer wouldhave to have taken place. I suppose the only place the company died argument makes sense is ‘IN YOUR HEAD, IN YOUR HEAD…….” im sure theres song that goes along witht that
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Is that by the band “the cranberries”? I vaguely remember a song they had a hit with which started with a Z .Cant recall the full word tho’
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just how thick can you be! frightening.
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Are Rangers fans really going to bury their heads in the sand again? They were hoodwinked by Murray, deceived by Whyte and it seems it’s happening all over again under Green. Is there no-one prepared to stand up for their supporters and try to save their significant investment in the new company/club?
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Alex the Scottish press don’t comment on it but have you personally had threats from the rangers fans for speaking the truth
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Green appears to be another charlatan!
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In response to Gary I am a Celtic fan but people should look at the likes of Florentina who UEFA recognise as the same club (transfer of trophies et al) which makes a mockery of their financial fair rules (which weren’t in force in the case of Florentina)
What would be interesting to know (if I was a rangers fan) is if the money from IPO is in the clubs account….
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they bought off the debt of the old club and were then allowed to use their original name. so it isn’t making a fool of uefa’s rule
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Sevco have NOT paid the all debt of the deceased Rangers! Rangers International (sevco) is a new club.
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Alex morally what is your opinion on what happened at the old club
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Who’s lying, Alex Thomson or Charles Green’s press officer?
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If Rangers go bust again and there is a Third Rangers, will they STILL be the same Club!!!
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But UEFA regard them as a new club, hence their 3 year wait untill they meet 3 years audited accounts rule for new clubs in UEFA competitions.
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To Ian. No, the failure to produce accounts to compete in Europe happened in Craig Whyte’s time, months before Green’s company took on the running of the club.
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The clue in the UEFA rules is the “audited accounts” bit. It is a COMPANY that audit laws apply to NOT clubs. I know “Company ” & “Club” start with the same letter but you need to read all the way to the end to get the meaning! Audit is a LEGAL term defined by COMPANY LAW. So this 3 year rule applies to the COMPANY not club. Doh! Try going to an accountant and ask for your “club” to be audited and he’ll just laugh & say only companies have legal audit requirements. Hence “Rangers FC” may be run by a different company but are the same club. Just ask the ECA who invited “Rangers FC” to the meetin in Far East. I think it is wishful thinking on the part of Celtic fans to wish that Rangers died. Anyway if you believe your own mind ,why are you bothered about this “new” club? Is it really really bothering you that you repeat the same mantra over and over trying to convince yourself of something which , in your heart, you know is not the truth? It is a form of psychosis.
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Are you familiar with the concept of incorporation, which is what Rangers the club did in 1899?
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How come when anyone asks any questions about what’s happening at ibrox they are met with such anger and aggression?
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@Frankie B, if they arent a new club why were they not seeded for domestic cup competitions, why did they have to APPLY to get into the scottish league and were then subject to a licence transfer from the OLD club to the NEW club….and so on and so on and so on…….
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John, Rangers had to apply to join the SFL because they weren’t members of that organisation. The club has the same SFA membership as it has always had (for about 140 years) but the transfer to the new owners (new company) had to be approved.
The anti-Rangers brigade obviously think that if they keep working away at these details they will find some sort of “magic bullet” that will prove Rangers are dead and gone. All they are providing proof of is their obsession with a supposedly dead club.
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When will the HMRC appeal be held?
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@ Mark Oliver, in italian law, you can’t liquidate a football club, their is no such law in the UK/Scotland, RFC died last year, you ARE a new club
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you ARE a new club, should read, they ARE a new club
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Alan, the things that get liquidated are companies. Company law doesn’t get much more basic.
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And Rangers were incorporated into a company. Hence the club is being liquidated. It actually still exists – until liquidation is complete. Which is why the club calling itself The Rangers in the bottom tier is a new club.
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Will we ever hear one word of contrition or an apology from Sevco FC for the utter havoc they wrecked when they simply walked away from millions of debt ?
The worst of it is now they brag about being so rich that they perceive themselves to only be behind Man U and Arsenal in the money stakes. Utterly shameful behaviour.
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Goatee, the Rangers chairman has expressed contrition. The Rangers manager has made similar statements.
Business can shed debts. By various means (the CVA is another way of shedding debt). That’s how company law works. If you’re really unhappy about how company law works – as opposed to just wanting to bash Rangers – complain to the government.
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The loyalty / defiance will wear out – I lived in Clynder Street in 1970, in the shadow of Ibrox and I recall very small crowds indeed.
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anytime you speak to a rangers fan it is almost as if nothing happened in last year, same history, same name,i still blame media for it,
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there is a direct connection betweenn riots in Belfast and the demise of Rangers. Fustration of protestant culture or lack of identity.
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Gary is a good follow follower spilling out all the usual fairytales and paranoia.
Alex, put the lot of them in their place in much the same way Gary Hooper’s right foot did last year for the old rangers.
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Green said he’s staying at Ibrox until he hears the champions league anthem and yet also says that he will never let the club play in the SPL under his reign, therefore how does he achieve this? Is he going to use the excuse of league reconstruction and say its a different league? Same teams that he detests though!
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@stooj: Was it the company or the club that were put out of the Scottish Cup last week?
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I think its wrong to say the Scottish media is anti- Rangers. I think the fault was they were pro Rangers and in Mr Murray’s pocket. They then were reluctant to criticize Rangers and Murray.
That is why Alex has been a breath of fresh as he is impartial and we are getting a balanced view.
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Hope you’ve tuned in now. We had a slight delay at the start. C4N team
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The scottish game was great until David Murray came to rangers spending millions left right and centre. Celtic barely managed to match his spending and now Rangers are bust. Its not the sfa or the spls fault its Rangers 1872′s fault!
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Green formed a new club and transferred the name and history from the old club which entered into administration and finally liquidation, which is laughable at best.
Deep down all Rangers fans know this to be true.
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The issue is Rangers fans have no leadership and are easily duped. The fans believed the media’s lies that Whyte was a Billionaire and now are taken in by Green, More to come …..
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Someone should tell Gary that clubs don’t aspire to the SPL to play Celtic and Rangers 4 times a season.
Rangers are in liquidation and will shortly cease to exist – no one plays them anymore.
#youarestillindenial
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Charles Green is the pied piper of ibrox … And we all know what happened in Hamelin…
Hook line and sinker comes to mind…
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Thanks guys, fascinating discussion.
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Gary, the only people who should have investigated Craig whyte were the oldco board but as they were willing to sell to anyone even for £1 was because they were desperate to offload the club as they fully expected to lose the btc, fact !
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Mark Oliver – In response to Gary I am a Celtic fan but people should look at the likes of Florentina who UEFA recognise as the same club
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Mark simple fact here is that Fiorentina were not liquidated. End of.
I’m a Celtic Fan and have no problem with Rangers fans thinking Sevco Scotland is the same club, that’s all it is a thought so if it gives them some comfort then let them be.
Of course its totally ridiculous to think that MG Rover, Woolworths, Third Lanark, etc who were liquidated are still alive and well, who on earth would pay taxes if this was the case ? For me this ongoing comedy sketch show is a total embarrassment to Scotland and Football as it will set a dangerous precedent for any other club who thinks it can do a ‘Rangers’.
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@gk I’m sorry but I thought controlled adminsistration in Italy was a form of bankrupcy
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It is wonderful to see how much RFC. Still rankles with you and the other puddle drinkers. In a time to come when RFC win a trophy I don’t think Sevco will be the engraving.
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Can anyone explain to me, why, if it is the same club but different holding company, did they not start the season with a 10 point deduction??? After all, the were still in administration at that point. Just out the shower so have all day to wait for a response…..
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jim craig, Rangers did not start this season with a 10-point deduction because the company running the club then weren’t in administration.
Much of this is simple, if you really want to understand. Companies often run things. Other companies can take on the running of those things.
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Whoever disliked this, are you too lazy to post a reply to the question or is it the case that there is no suitable answer that supports your viewpoint?
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Why is there so much commentary on Rangers by lets call them fans of other clubs. If their argument, that Rangers are a new club, had any substance why are they bothering to waste their time obsessing on this new entity, what possible rivalry could they have with a club born just last year?
Surely the continued obsession on Rangers by, and lets call a spade a spade, the Celtic minded and the overwhelming urge by the cabal of like minded individuals to punish Rangers for as yet unproven previous sins proves beyond any doubt that the club founded in 1872 still exisits, or is that too logical?
Hoisted by your own petard folks?
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When Rangers win the 3rd Division and start claiming title number 55 will Uefa come out and say sorry History says the old club won 54 (still debatable) this is your first trophy as a new club. And more to the point when another club reaches 55 titles will they then be entitled to claim a world record. Debt, Old Club, Titles, New Club. New Club final.
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Also, if UEFA see them as the same club, why are they not allowed to participate in European football tiurnaments for at least three years? I have been asking this for almost a year now and no one will give me a proper answer……….
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When is “majority of Rangers fans are stupid and easily duped” debate?
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Old ragers companies house registration number ;SC004276
New ragers companies house registration number ;SC425159
Are they the same
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Doh!! NO there not the same thicko. Changed COMPANIES not CLUBS!! What part don’t you understand?..Sad your in Champions League and your more interested in Ranger NOT THE RANGERS just Rangers. Go check with SFA and they will claify that we are SIMPLY RFC and alive and kicking. Sad your dont love your shitehole of a club as much as you love the 54 titles World Champions!!. WATP and YOUS ARE NOT..RTID
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Typically aggressive, abusive, brainless and downright pathetic !! Thank god above that this mob have died, and hopefully for ever, as the rest of Scotland enjoy the opportunities to have a decent family day out watching football without fear of hooligan elements ruining the day !!
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Its seems after reading this most of the posts come from Celtic fans who are still obsessing about who why or what Rangers is whilst most Rangers fans are just thankfull that Rangers still exist in one form or other.
On the subject of historys I would rather Rangers had no history than be anyway similar to theirs.
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Thank God
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@ andy vandal,first “old firm” game,celtic won,last “old firm”game celtic won,7-1 scottish cup win,largest ever margin in HISTORY,first team to win nine in a row,first BRITISH team to win the european cup,outright winners of the fairs cup,the empire exhibition trophy and lastly the coronation cup….now please discuss and remember,all of ours were by fair means,a concept lost on your club past present and undoubtedly the future….the rangers way eh!
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According to the rules ” a new company CANNOT use the same or similar name to any company that has been liquidated in the last 12 months” so was it just the company Rangers that went into liquidation ? then going by the rules they are using The Rangers name illegally . so why dont we call them by their proper name The Glasgow Ringers seems to be more appropriate
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Company cannot use the same or similar name not club
Obsessed Then
Obsessed Now
Obsessed Forever
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dont forget thier is more to come on the shame that the old brought to scottish football they can claim to be the old all they want ..but the bottom line is they are a busted flush.
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Shame you bet there is more to come,and its hidden in the confines of a club that plies their trade in the west end of glasgow,and if some journo has the kudos to have a look these big macho fans would soon disappear and then we would see what real shame is.
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I am sorry Alex, but this debate quite disappointing considering your previous coverage on the demise of RFC.
Why was the RFC fan allowed to make ridiculous assertions without being challenged?
He blamed the SPL/SFL/SFA/Media for his club/company’s sorry state.
If I recall, Craig Whyte was cheered all the way into Ibrox when he took over.
He was loudly cheered as he took his seat in the Directors box.
King William (1690) would have been happy with that reception.
I wont even start on the press, we all know they were ‘duped’ as they say.
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The documents from duff and phelps clearly stated “The Company & The Club”, both were put in admin on 14/02/2012 and provisionally liquidated on 31/10/12. They were one entity under company law and scottish football law. Charlie green clearly stated on interview prior to the cva decision that they would loose everything inc history if the cva was not approved.Rangers and the underclass failed. Night Night
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on the on line debate gary calderwood stated that the crowds turning up to support rangers was not defiance but through love of the the club ,fair enough but that begs the question where was the love for the club in the seventies and eighties pre. david holmes and david murray when crowds went as low as under 5000.and where were the club lovers afew years ago when rangers debt reached eightyfive million pounds and david murray played what he thought was his get out of jail free card by having a fiftyfive million pounds share flotation and it was a total flop because the rangers fans would’nt by into it leaving m.i.m.who underwrote it to pick up 95%,something that the sychophantic scottish media described as an outstanding success.david calderwood also said everybody knew about craig whyte and his business record.well I dont remember anything coming from rangers fans who were rubbing their hands when the daily record described whyte as a billionaire with wealth off the radar.
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Laughing at the celtic fans desperately trying to convince themselves Rangers are a new club. Rangers recieved a transfer of their original membership,the SFA,SFL,UEFA and the European Club Assoc have all confirmed them as the same club,as are Fiorentina,Miidlesbrough etc etc,only in Scotland would this nonsensical debate be happening. Anytime i want confirmation i’ll log onto the SFL website where Rangers are correctly listed as founded in 1872 together with all honours,the ECA website where Rangers are listed as members due to being founding members in 2008(not bad for a club formed in 2012),the UEFA website where Rangers have their ranking for the 2012/THIRTEEN season,88th,or the SFA website where the SFA clearly state Green and his consortium as the new owners of Rangers Football Club. Even HMRC and BDO confirm the club still exists. From HMRC. “A liquidation provides the best opportunity to protect taxpayers, by allowing the potential investigation and pursuit of possible claims against those responsible for the company’s financial affairs in recent years. A CVA would restrict the scope of such action. Moreover the liquidation route does not prejudice the proposed sale of the club. This sale can take place either through a CVA or a liquidation.” Note…does not prejudice the proposed sale of the club. ..and from BDO “. Malcolm Cohen and James Stephen from financial company BDO have been appointed as Joint Liquidators. “It’s important to understand that the appointment of liquidators will not mean the end of football at Ibrox – only the end of the company that ran the club,” said Cohen. Note…only the end of the company that ran the club…..you cannot “liquidate” a football club,it can be dissolved,as in Third Lanark or Airdrieonians,which did not happen to Rangers. This obsession from celtic fans is frankly embarrassing,and shows them in a very bad light,as for the UEFA 3 year ban btw that is a fair play rule in place to deal with situations exactly like Rangers,nothing to do with a new club. One last point,before any celtic fans rush to tell us Rangers on UEFA are lsted as having played their last game v St Johnstone,yes ive seen that old line many times,check out Dunfermline,they played their last match v Kilmarnock,it’s simply because they,like Rangers,are an SFL club now. Same club,same honours,same founding date…and no amount of wishful thinking will change that fact.
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Chuckles bought the assets, not the club, hence the club is gone. Simple, really.
As you keep being told, the SPL, the SFA and UEFA have never, ever said its the same club. You. Are. Making. This. Up. The ECA not a ruling authority, its a lobby and its opinion carries no real weight on this matter.
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Uefa web site only show stuff about team in there top teir that’s why it says st johnstone but if you look at uefa ranking rangers are 88th for 2013 and there poind have been add up from the previous 4 years explain that
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So so confused I need many questions answered. But I’ll start of with one – if the club and company are separate entities who employs the players and who pays them?
OK that’s technically two questions.
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Indeed. If those players win honours, those honours belong to the company not the club.
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In reply tosomeone previously who asked why Rangers cannot compete in Europe for 3 seasons itsquite simple and nothing to do with being a new club. This is a Financial Fair Play rule and effectively exists for precisely the type of scenario that the club finds itself in. Rangers are effectively banned from Europe for 3 years for going into administration and emerging with a new company in charge.
UEFA have just published their coefficients for European competition for 2012/13. Rangers are ranked 88th. Our history in Europe for the past 5 years is acknowledged, as normal, as part of those coefficient tables. So,UEFA,SFA,SFL and the European Club Assoc. all state Rangers are the exact same club,indeed the ECA wrote to the SFA to clarify the clubs status and the reply was clear,same club as the club founded 140 years ago…anyone who chooses to ignore all this evidence really should be treated with contempt,because it’s obvious the motives for them choosing to ignore it…
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Too many people confusing ‘company’ with ‘club’. They are 2 separate entities. They are a newco (new comany) but are still the same club.
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If they are two separate entities, when did the club “un-incorporate” itself from the company ? They were both INCORPOTATED as one in 1899.
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I think what angers football supporters in general is the total lack of contrition by The Rangers fc and its supporters.We have crass statements coming form Ibrox daily,stating they are debt free etc etc,this has been proven to be lies.Lessons from what happened to oldco have not been learned by Mr Green,his playing to the gallery’s is getting tedious and sooner or later supporters of The Rangers FC will start asking serious questions of Mr Green .To all those supporters who bought shares,did you believe you bought shares in the Football club or holding company?
Charles Green borrowed money to buy The Rangers FC just like Craig Whyte did,same outcome lies ahead imo
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Don’t worry andy, whether its old rangers history or new rangers with no history,it’ll never be similar to ours, European champions and 9 titles in a row not won through cheating
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Because the fans of old club,, have an emotional tie to old club doesn’t make new club the old club. One thing that has made its self clear, is that the sectarain element of the old club,. have found their voice again within the new club. Yet the MSM, SFA, SPL and the SFL say nothing, just like the last 100 years.
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Some of the comments on here shine the truth on the true nature of sectarianism & football in Scotland. I’m not alone in thinking there is something seriously wrong in Scotland & this impacts on all of our lives.
My family’s a good example. My dad’s a protestant rangers fan but my mother is Catholic. In any other country this would not be important. Scotland however is another story. My father was disowned by his family for daring to marry “one of them” & as I looked at some of the b&w photos of that day I was hit with a great sadness & anger. How can you cast out your son, your brother over something so trivial? Both are forms of Christianity. Both believe in the same God so why is there so much hatred towards Catholics in my country?
My father tried to maintain a relationship with his family for many years but it was hard work. When my older brother dared visiting my papa’s house he was told “no pape Celtic fan” was welcome & he had to stand outside.vthis was a seven yr old child with no idea of sectarianism. This is not a one off in this country, there are thousands of similar stories & yet ppl on here continue to deny there is anything wrong & either deflect & deny or attack. Vile jibes about child abuse, besmirching the name of one of Britains greatest managers, blaming everything on conspiracy theories & if that fails the threats roll out. I’ve been attacked a few times & lost 2 teeth in 1 attack all because I went to a Catholic school or wore a Celtic top. I’m non practicing, I no longer believe in a God yet have been branded a “taig”, “pape”, “fenian” & other such sectarian rubbish. This has NO part to play in a modern & civilised society & I can hope that one day my kids can go out without this threat hanging over them too.
First step is admitting the problem but that seems like very far away right now.
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Hi Big Ernie
I can appreciate what you are saying. I am married over 32 years in ” mixed ” marriage. We left all that bigotry behind 32 years ago and told both families to get over it.
We are not religious now but we do respect everyone’s right to be as they wish.
Over the years we have come across some sad folks who do not respect their fellow human beings as we do.
Our children were brought up to know that everyone was welcome in our home regardless of creed,colour etc the only thing we asked that whoever was brought into our home had respect for all others.
We do not even discriminate against anyone regardless of which team they support , can you imagine how ludicrous that would be.
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Those claiming that club and company are separate would do well to familiarize themselves with the meaning of the word “incorporation”, which the club did when it became a company.
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If the rangers are the same club why couldn’t they play football between 17/6/12 and 3/8/12?
If the membership was transferred over from the oldco then why are the rangers not members of the SFA?
Why did the rangers have to get a new licence to play football? Why couldn’t they just use the licence that the oldco had?
Surely the rangers fans will at least ask questions about what’s going on or are they just going to sit back and let their club die again?
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Allways nice how many of the Green Seat Brigade are showing interest for the one and only football club in Glasgow,for Rangers!
54 titles and still counting WATP
Respect from Hamburg
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For all the digs about the Green seat brigade, across the season, Celtic has still had greater average attendances and that is with significantly higher ticket costs.
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Rangers have destroyed Scottish football. And the people that run there club are taking there fans for fools..
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That they seem to be. It’s great
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BDO recently put an ad in the Edinburgh Gazette saying Rangers (club) were in liquidation, none of this pish about the holding company…THE CLUB, this is the death sentence, son they are NOt the same club, two different legal entities, two separate CLUBS & history gone forever!!!
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It is the owners of Rangers Football Club who have changed. Not the club, our history, our name, our heritage, our fans, our colours and certainly not the honours we have won. Can’t you get that into your thick heids?
Incidentally, another football club in Glasgow changed it’s name in 1994. Back then before they were bought by Fergus McCann they were called Celtic Football and athletic Coy Ltd.
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The two situations are the opposite of each other. Rangers is a new club which wants to take a defunct club’s name. Celtic is the same club but changed its name (slightly).
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As someone who these days has little interest in football – I preferred it when all kick-offs were at 3 pm on a Saturday afternoon and for midweek matches 7.30 pm on a Wednesday evening, and the players were paid a sensible wage for what they actually did (kick a ball around a pitch for 90 minutes – because let’s be honest folks it’s not brain surgery or running the country, is it?) – it appears to me that many seem confused by whether the footballing entity that is Rangers F.C. of today is the same historical entity that its supporters in the main claim it has always been since 1872. It is certainly true that in business/constitutional terms the club is now under new ownership – and this according to some means that the club’s previous footballing history is to be disregarded. However, if that is the case – and I’m approaching this as an honours graduate in medieval, early modern and modern Scottish history (Dundee University) – does that mean that Scotland’s national history before the constitutional upheavals of 1560 is no longer relevant and should no longer be studied and taught in the country’s schools and universities? You see Scotland, like Rangers F.C., came under ‘new management’ in 1560 when the country ceased to be Catholic (the medieval period c.1050 – 1560) and came under new ownership, that of the Protestants (the early modern period from 1560 to 1707, and modern period from 1707 to the present). In other words, what I’m asking is this: does Scotland’s history begin in 1560 or does it predate 1560 to include its Catholic past as well as its Protestant – though thankfully increasingly secular – present? All the best folks!!
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Scotland didn’t incorporate and go bust.
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geegsy 67
Which of the two is more shameful, tax fiddling or kiddy fiddling?
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doogs in regards to Clydebank Airdrie thing. Airdrie went bust completley, disappeared,shut down but around the same time Clydebank were having troubles and people connected to the now defunct airdrie bought the club called Clydebank and renamed them Airdrie UTD and took Clydebank’s place in the 1st div. 2 leagues higher than the league the defunct airdrie was in. Clydebank therefore continued under the name of Airdrie UTD . Several years later a NEW clydebank was formed as a junior outfit. The Original Airdrie do not exist.
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Celtic fans are shockingly obsessed by the most successfull team in world football eh,
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What makes you think we’re obsessed with Real Madrid?
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Just like naismith said, its not the same club he had signed for.
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Celtic FC changed company on at least one ocassion in the past. Passific shelf 959 and HMS 402.
The Rangers Football Club was formed before any company was formed in relation to it and this is recognised in the club history, this is information which is available and included in encyclopaedic formats and is widely recognised as a true account of history.
How can any business entity truly face a winding up order if they have the money to cover any bill and legal cost, surely this case manifest as strait legal battle to obtain the claimed sums that are owed.
For a winding up order this would mean surely the club had no money to cover the bill and any legal costs, such was the case with Hearts FC and HMRC in 2012.
No matter how many proxie based fake accounts are used to bump up the likes and dislikes on the pro rangers posts on this board, lies are lies, sensationalism at its best in Scottish media.
ONline bullying and media propaganda aside, why do so many care so much about enforcing their OPPINION of the situation up others when they try so hard to hide their double standards and facts such as Celtic transferring companies and how does liquidation of a company kill a club that existed before that company?
Why is there has been no outrage in the Scottish Media or from the Celtic support and Scottish fans regarding matching in the champions league and why do the Celtic support not persue this vile issue that affects them as equally as Rangers Alleged cheating with such anger?
Why sporting integrity not brought up in the 90s when Olympic Marsaille were found match fixing and in the same year were allowed to keep their European Cup Victory.
The term sporting integrity is used only when it suits the agenda of some and ignored when it questions their beliefs.
It is truly time this stopped. It is truly time so many moved and lived their own life perusing success for themselves with out care of what others think of themselves.
Best regards to all, no offence intended.
D K
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Sorry about the typos, I typed my comment on my iPad.
I was referring to match fixing in the champions league not what ever matching is :p
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TCD, Fiorentina did liquidate. They ceased to exist for a good few months and restarted as a whole new company. They played in a different stadium for a while and had different strips. Uefa still gave the new company the previous honours.
So stop talking nonsense Rangers are Rangers no matter what and you celtic fans realy should concentrate on your own club rather than ours like a few people have said WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE TO YOU?????
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Ian et al, ,,,,,why do we comment if rangers are not the same club. Well my friend, it’s car crash tv at the very worst and dare I say interesting to watch grown men make an utter clown of themselves. Banners declaring “our club will never die” are probably true but the name Rangers died however much you try to deny it. For years we have put up with your freemasonry within many strands of our society to give certain people advantages which their lack of skills would have denied them otherwise. This would probably be one of the reasons why the MSM do not report the truths emanating from other sources about their beloved club. Alex and Phil have shown the media in Scotland what they really are and it ain’t hard nosed journalists.
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Why is it that it is fans of other clubs that want to talk about Rangers ,especially Celtic fans.Obsession doesnt come close.I don’t care if you think we are a new club.To me it’s the same club.Est1872 .
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I see a dislike on my posts, even the only apologising for my typos…
Are these people for real, you disliked my post saying sorry for the typo and nothing more….
Waaahahahaha…
The truth hurts eh! Some people have no life.
Ah the Beauty of the Internet, use a few accounts to make your OPPINION appear popular and therefore correct.
It’s so obvious 1 person disliked every new Pro Rangers post because it does not suit the desperate view.
How about this, I supported The Rangers since my birth in 1981. I still support The Rangers in 2013. They play at Ibrox and wear royal blue and while playing in the third division they still have as much chance of winning the champions league as The Celtic Football Club do in the next 5 years.
Dislikes at the ready, fire up the proxy accounts, defend at all costs, try to shut us down as we are the only ones who can compete.
I’m not to fussed about the past but I look forward to the future very much.
On day you will look back on these days as the greatest of your life which is truly pathetic.
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It’s about time both sets of fans grew up & put a stop to the sectarian bile. It’s damaging Scottish football, the reputation of both clubs & that of the county. Does it matter if you are Catholic or protestant? It shouldn’t. One is not superior to the other. They are differing points of the same view. One god.
How this can be abused both both elements of these clubs? Admittedly both have tried in recent years to tackle said issues but I’d say not any where near hard enough. Celtic have had more success but this was mainly due to the fact the problem they faced was not as prevalent as those across the city. Celtic still have a problem with some fans glorifying republican terrorist groups & a new underground movement trying to bring football hooligans back to life. But most Celtic fans now would prefer to do without these unsavory elements and that is quite telling in itself.bthe club & the fans have moved on a great deal from the shacklesb of past shame. I’m afraid this progression has not been matched by rangers. The club feels it has to pander to & appease the most intolerant sections in order to gain favour. Orange football strips, referring to the orange order & loyalist nonsense, a prime example. The constant attacks & branding anyone who disagree with their views as “anti rangers” is only the start. They have intentionally whipped their fans into a frenzy using inferred references to bigotry, conspiracy theories, & blatant twisting of facts which has lead to the true face of bigot being shown. Death threats to Celtic players, manager, fans & even ppl with no link to Scotland giving an outside perspective (mr Thompson), bullets & bombs being sent to Neil Lennon, msp’s, a number of lawyers, chairmen of other clubs etc etc etc. This is not imagined. This is not a lie nor is it a conspiracy. These have been made by elements within the rangers support. Now I know a great number of them have been disgusted by these actions & rightly so but those in charge of the club are guilty of stoking up bad feeling to exploit it for their own monetary gain. Maybe they underestimated this due to coming from outside Scotland. Ignorance to real issues. It’s time for the club & the support to drag the club forward. Not with hate-filled propaganda but with a new progressive point of view. It’s time to drop this loyalist, protestant superiority complex & judge themselves as equal to those of another faith.
For the sake of Scottish football & Scotland’s reputation the paranoia, hatred & superiority complex needs to go.
Everyone was born equal & your choice of faith does not change this fact. Both sets of fans need to step back & really look at the greater good.
Surely in 2013 it can be done?
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140 plus posts and nothing but new team/old team arguments. To a diddy club fan like me this lot will always be new and to their followers they will be a continuity. Nae problem.
There are a lot of important issues around how such a big team could get to where they are now and could it happen to anyone else? My particular point calls on Fergie’s quote in AFC 80′s days when he labelled most lower division clubs as “social clubs with a fitba team attached.” He meant it as a derogatory statement of course meaning that it made no difference to them if they went skint, they’d get by anyway whereas the “big” clubs would not. Unfortunately, Scottish Fitba has eaten itself and now there is only two “big”teams. On the plus side, if any of the rest went through the oldco suicide mission they would start again, groundsharing or whatever, and keep going. They might even get back into SFL3 ahead of the queue? The problem (!) with the old Rangers is that they could not handle this, they need to be the people and so there is this ongoing pantomime. I would really like to see better days ahead for the diddy teams and I’m nae happy with my own board at AFC for my club’s demise but there is a poster on P&B whose strap line is something like “40 part time clubs and Scottish fitba can go from strength to strength.” He has a point.
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